Just wondering. I know there are conceptual entities that (generally) supercede everything else power level wise, but as sorcerers/witches/mages (ie users and manipulators of magic) go Loki (the mature Loki) seems to be operating on a playing field well above everyone else, even Dr Strange.
Anyone in his league?
He’s only a sorcerer in the Marvel-verse? I thought he was another god, like Thor and Odin.
My knowledge of the Marvel-verse Thor comes solely from watching the cartoons in the 70s (or 60s, not really sure).
Thor is probably the most powerful Marvel superhero by far (especially after they got rid of his need to constantly hug Mjolnir to keep his power). While I’m not an expert on Marvel, it would stand to reason that Thor’s primary villain is likely also one of the most powerful beings in his field, or it wouldn’t be much of a fair fight.
Thanos is probably leagues more powerful, but it really depends on how you want to define “sorceror” he has telekinesis, time travel, and a slew of other abilities, but he’s more of a personification of pure power and doesn’t rely on “magic” the way, say, Loki does. On review, Thanos probably falls under your “conceptual entities” header. So I’d say Loki probably is the most powerful, of for no reason to be a primary credible threat to Thor.
I’d say Sentry is
Thanos isn’t a cosmic entity. And he’s probably the strongest non-cosmic in Marvel
So Steven Strange, M.D. is really the sorcerer penultimate? How do you define sorcerer? Skill or strength? I think that the Marvelverse has Odin as master of the Runes and significantly stronger than Loki, and possibly more clever and subtle. It’s been since Simonson’s run in the eighties that I paid attention, but virtually anyone paying close attention can get the drop on Loki because of his focus on gaining power and lack of self-insight.
Part of the problem in figuring this equation is the difference between an extradimensional being who uses either inborn power or taps into the natural energies of his native realm (i.e. Loki) and an Earth-born sorcerer whose magical abilities are derived from three basic sources:
[ol]
[li]Mental abilities (e.g. astral projection, telepathy, mesmerism)[/li][li]This universe’s ambient magical energy[/li][li]Extradimensional sources/creatures/objects tapped through invocation[/li][/ol]
How exactly do you stack Loki’s powers against Dr. Strange’s abilities (which, from a technical standpoint, aren’t ‘powers’ in that sense)? Even given that Loki’s powers are as natural to him as breathing, doesn’t Dr. Strange’s unique insight and wisdom as to the Mystic Arts given him a greater edge than apparent at first glance?
Quantifying magic is hard enough when two opponents are using the same sources (e.g. Dr. Strange and Baron Mordo). Loki vs. Dr. Strange… it makes apples -and-oranges seem simplistic.
Back in the Ditko days, Dr. Strange had a couple of run-in’s with Loki, and it was established that Loki was considerably more powerful. Indeed, had Thor not returned Loki would have killed Strange in their first meeting. However, that was before Dr. Strange became the Sorceror Supreme. I’ve not read Thor since the Simonson days, but I would say that Dormammu and beings on that power level are probably Loki’s equals or superiors.
Context makes me want to make sure: you know that “penultimate” means “next to last,” right?
And even then, Loki had visited Doc to get Thor out of the way, since Doc could just make Thor’s hammer vanish from way the heck across town; Doc soon realized what Loki was up to and zapped said hammer back to said thunder god, and cue a pissed-off Thor zooming over to provoke Loki’s skedaddle before the evil one could break through Doc’s insta-shield.
I thought Dormammu was more powerful than Dr. Strange, but he (Dormie) lives in a different dimension. But Dr. Strange is Earth’s Sorcerer Supreme.
But I think Odin is more magically powerful than Loki, although he never does much magic on camera.
All this is thirty years or more out of date, but back in the day that was how it was when I was reading comic books.
Regards,
Shodan
It can also mean, “next to the ultimate, or final”. So yes, If Strange was 2nd best it would be perfectly reasonable to call him “pentultimate.”
Loki is probably the most powerful pure sorcerer in the Marvel Universe. Sure, he sometimes hangs out in Asgard, but he spends an awful lot of time in Marvel. Dormammu and Odin would probably be more powerful, but neither does much in the main Marvel universe. That said, Loki is a magician, not just a God. He weaves spells, and doesn’t just rely on his innate power. Thanos, as usual, doesn’t study magic and has no technique or subtlety whatsoever. he just does things on raw cosmic might
Isnt Strange Earth Dimension’s Sorcerer Supreme? (he is the Sorcerer Supreme of the 616 MU?)
What about the Enchantress or Karnilla the Norn Queen? I have dim recollections of Loki turning to them when he needed the assistance of a more powerful sorceror to plague Thor.
And there are the fairly obscure characters called We Who Sit In Shadows Above who have been described as “like gods to the (Asgardian) gods.”
Not in any of the three dictionaries I just consulted - in each one the only definitions are “next to last” or “of or relating to the next to the last syllable of a word.”
I wasn’t nitpicking the use of ultimate to mean “best,” which, though I myself find it silly, is in wide usage. It was just that there was no context in the original post suggesting that smiling bandit thought of Strange as “second best.” It came off very much like he was using the pen- as an intensifier.
But, yes, technically, penultimate doesn’t really mean “second best,” just “next to last.”
Fighting ignorance and all that.
Are Loki’s powers completely natural? Don’t all of Thor’s powers come from Mjolnir?Seem to remember that Odin gave Mjolnir to Thor, which was the beginning of the antagonism between the two.
How come Loki was born with powers when Thor wasn’t?
Bakhesh: Loki may have been born with powers, but I do recall a Tales of Asgard story in one of the old annuals that said he studied with the Norns to learn more about magic.
The OP asked about the Marvel universe. not Earth or Earth’s dimension. (Doesn’t that imply there are other places in that dimension than Earth? Do we ever see them?)
So either Loki and Dormammu and Hel and Lucifer and all the god-like creatures count or none of them do. Magic sometimes seems to be what defines the differences between gods and humans in Marvel.
And Stephen Strange hasn’t been the Sorcerer Supreme of Earth for years. Brother Voodoo is. Moreover, each dimension has a Supremo. The most powerful is always the person whose name is in the title of the comic.
From what I remember from ages ago when I followed Thor comics, Loki is Jotun (Frost Giant) instead of Asgardian. At the very least, he’s only Thor’s half brother. (He may have been entirely Jotun and adopted, but I think I recall that Odin is his actual father - I may be remembering wrong.) Whichever way, he’s Laufey’s son, and thus the heir to the Jotun throne.
The difference in heritage was supposed to account for the difference in magic styles and abilities between the two (although Odin pulls just about any magical ability out his rear whenever he wants to, so I don’t know that it was really necessary as an explanation… )
Boy, am I out of the loop these days? Brother Voodoo? When did that happen? Brother Voodoo?? What, did Doc get drunk and lose the Eye of Agamotto in a poker game?
Brother Voodoo?? :dubious: