That was a very keen insight but really doesn’t compare to finding child torture bizarre.
You know, it’s kind of funny. This board is normally quite science- and reason-friendly. But there are a few issues where there is a massive blind spot, and this is one of them. You and your dick-slicing proponents are the ones who bear the burden of proof, not I.
To recap: The healthy, non-deformed human male is born with a foreskin attached to his penis. This state of affairs has prevailed for untold millennia, and continues to be the norm for the majority of humanity. There are only two large groupings of people today who promote the practice of male circumcision: Muslims and North Americans. The former do so on religious grounds, so reason has no place in that debate. However, Americans assert that this practice is beneficial on scientific grounds. This group is the one who bears the burden of proving (not implying, insinuating, or suggesting) that this practice is beneficial. It is not up to the rest of us to prove that this stupid practice isn’t necessary. That’s on you.
Not sure from your comment there - are you a fan or not of child torture? Speaking personally, I don’t find the genital mutilation (not “torture” - that’s your word) of either boys or girls to be laudatory.
And, seeing as this is GD, you wouldn’t happen to have a citation for that “keen insight” of yours, would you? (One not limited to a database of merely American women, of course.)
Torture was not my word.
No, not really. There’s a bunch of studies. There’s board recommendations. You’re saying that these are illegitimate. You’re welcome to provide evidence of this. You’re not welcome to put the burden on me to prove their legitimacy to you and set yourself as the arbiter or whether they’re correct or not.
That said, you’re the one who wants the practice to change. I honestly don’t give a shit if no one in Europe is ever circumcised again. Really. Makes zero difference to me. You, on the other hand, seem to care a good deal if the practice continues in the United States. So it’s up to you to make an argument for why I should listen to you and not the existing research and opinions of medical boards since you’re the one who wishes to effect change.
Wasn’t mine, either.
Oh - still waiting on that supporting evidence for your “keen insight”…
But you said it was my word and it wasn’t.
The very first sentence from your (singular) citation:
“New scientific evidence shows the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks of the procedure, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all newborn boys, according to an updated policy statement published by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).”
So even your authoritative source doesn’t recommend the procedure as routine, unlike, say MMR immunizations.
No, I’m saying they’re insufficient. There’s a difference.
No, I don’t have to. I’m going with the null hypothesis on this one.
And you’re not welcome to massage the findings to meet some level of statistical significance which they do not reach, and pass it off as scientific consensus.
Sure, it’d be nice if Americans didn’t routinely mutilate their kids’ genitals. It’d also be nice if they didn’t do a lot of stupid shit, but it’s no big deal to me. I don’t live in the US anymore. I spent my first 35 years in that dystopic madhouse and escaped at the soonest opportunity.
No, what I care about is when Americans try to promote their bullshit agendas to the rest of the world. We Euros live longer than you - maybe US medicine/healthcare isn’t actually the pinnacle of Man’s ascent from ignorance?
You Americans keep doing stupid shit, I’ll keep commenting on it. Do what you like to your children. Never change!
Oh, for fuck’s sake. YOU were the one who first used it in our extended exchange, not I.
Cool. Glad that’s settled 
I was quoting someone else. Not my word.
You missed the point because “adult choice” is NOT what Schoggi was talking about.
I would tell you to re-read his posts, but I’ve found the hard way that such a tactic doesn’t work on this board–people have to be beaten over the head with the point, because even on this board, an awful lot of people are too stupid to actually think and/or pay attention.
Post #13–Schoggi says, “you don’t amputate a girl’s breasts because her mother had breast cancer.” And I responded by citing a practice that yes, in fact, we DO do that.
Post #42–he says, “Do you propose cutting out babies’ appendices and breasts as well since both appendicitis and breast cancer do occur and can actually be fatal?” He repeats that idea in post #60. I responded by citing proof that under certain conditions we do in fact perform precautionary appendectomies on healthy people.
Now this… THIS… this is truly the stuff of which Great Debates are made… :rolleyes:
I agree. Which is why it seems that it is you that missed the point.
That’s not what you did. As you said, adult choice is NOT what Schoggi was talking about. “You don’t amputate a girl’s breasts” is not regarding a woman and it’s clear he is talking about making a choice for someone underage when read in context. His paragraph started with “Should we remove a part of a normal penis in a child?” He’s clearly comparing mammary tissue in a child to a child’s foreskin. The relevant part of your response:
“For instance, some women DO, in fact, chose to have their breasts surgically removed.”
Yeah, women.
Doctors who are wintering at Australian Antarctic stations. Do you really think that helps to better answer the question of whether or not babies should have their appendices removed prophylactically? What point do you think you scored here?
Don’t blame me. You started it.
my son has Asperger’s Syndrome. One of the things which is a problem for those who have that is poor hygiene. My wife made the decision to circumcise our son before I was in the picture (I’m technically stepdad) but she is very glad she made the decision if nothing else for that.
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And you miss the point because I was not replying to, nor backing-up Schoggi’s point. If I were I would have clearly said so. “Adult choice” was the key element in the examples of preventative procedures you gave.
Did I mention Schoggi?, did I reference Schoggi?, did I did I strongly back them or speak in conflict with you? No, I merely highlighted the “adult choice” aspect of the given examples.
You jumped to an incorrect conclusion, If I had a stronger point to make directly to you or **Schoggi **you’d be left in no doubt about it.
Few parts of the islamic world, few.
We share the tradition of the male circumsion with the Jews.
ENOUGH!
The last page and a half has been nothing but stupid taunts about what others believe with a significant lack of actual evidence for any position offered.
The three quotes cited are Warnable offenses, but the thread has not had enough serious discussion, recently, to bother.
I am shutting this down as a waste of my time to monitor it.
I realize that this is an emotional topic, but if you cannot conduct a serious discussion without resorting to insults, open the next thread in The BBQ Pit.
[ /Moderating ]