Is it a science or something else?
In the sense of something that can be verified by empirical testing, that is, producing predictable results in the real world, mathematics would not be regarded as a true science. Although it uses a logical methodology, many mathematical results are not susceptible to be tested in the “real world.”
However, math can be tested sometimes. For example, a mathematical model might predict that a wing design will lift a certain amount of mass at a certain velocity and altitude. That is amenable to actual testing.
However, when mathematical models fail math itself isn’t revised. The models are. Math is formally defined and rigorously proven to be correct, and it doesn’t need to have any connection with the outside world. Models are an application of mathematics, and must have a valid connection with what they are used for to be worthwhile.
So is math itself a science? Not really. I’d say that math is the language of science: It is capable of expressing relationships between facts and making predictions about them, but it is also capable of talking about itself and about objects that have no connection to the physical world.
Probably depends on how you define “science.” In grade school, math is a separate subject from science. In the Dewey Decimal System (library cataloging), it is a pure science, along with astronomy, physics, etc.
I think that mathematics is a formal logical system using certain defined operations on numbers in order to produce another number.
Perhaps. The English language is certainly one.
You see:
Had you asked “Are maths sciences?”, one could presume you meant different fields of mathematics, and whether or not they were considered “hard” sciences, such as biology.
Or had you asked “Is math a science?”, you would have meant mathematics in general.
But since you asked “Is maths a science?”, I felt it necessary to make a poorly worded and dull joke at your expense.
I’ve noticed that Europeans tend to say “maths” were in the US we say “math.” Anyone know about this?
Just that I’ve noticed it too. I assume it’s from the logic of retaining the final “s” from “mathematics.”
If I don’t already know [bMDI+** was a brit, the ‘s’ would have confirmed it
[Anecdotal] My South African Calculus teacher calls it “maths”. She also calls Statistics our “stats” class (We call it Stat).
But statistics is a plural, so stats is an acceptable derivative.
But on the other hand, “maths” is derived from the singular "mathemati…
shit.
:smack:
Well, you can have a singular statistic, and in fact statistics is the study of those things. But can you have a singular mathematic?
And back to the OP, I would agree that math(s) [is/are] not a science. There is no certainty in science. The two are, however, very closely allied, and it probably is fair to say that mathematics is the language of science (though that’s not all it is).
Weeeel, there is no certainty in positive results, but there isn’t there certainty in negative? I mean, if your theory predicts A and everyone who tries it gets Z using different experimental setups don’t you proceed with certainty that the theory was wrong?
Math(s) is an art, not a science.
On the Great Wheel of Subjects, math lies between science and philosophy.
I can give you some pretty damned certain positive results, too: Take a sledgehammer in one arm and release the handle. If you’re on Earth, I can predict to a high degree of certainty what’s going to happen.
But that’s all that I can do: State things to a high degree of certainty. In the real, physical world, that’s all we have. ‘Pretty damned sure’ doesn’t have a role in math, where things are defined to be so and known absolutely.
This is getting to the philosophical heart of mathematics and science, and I’m not sure I’m qualified to sustain a large discussion on these topics. But as I understand it, math gives you an absolute ruler with infinitely precise gradiations, whereas science gives you a very good ruler with error bars of differing widths. The fact those bars are narrow doesn’t mean they’ve disappeared.
Math is deductive, while science is inductive. That is, math builds knowledge by deducing theorems using the rules of logic, while science builds knowledge by inducing theories from observation. For example, in math the Pythagorean theorem can be deduced from the basic axioms of Euclidian geometry, while in science the law of universal gravitation can be induced from watching apples fall and planets orbit the sun. Math assumes a few basic laws and figures out what comes about as a result, while science looks at the world and figures out what basic laws must exist to account for the behavior we see.
There can be mathematical systems for which there are no known physical counterparts. It’s hard to see how one would do this in science, since science is based on observation.
Math is useful in science because, once one has figured out the basic laws of a physical system, one can use math to deduce other things about how the system will behave. For example, once Maxwell figured out his equations (using science) he was able to deduce (using math) that electromagnetic waves would propagate at the speed of light.
I’m seeing a lot of excuses to explain why math isn’t a science, and I don’t find any of them persuasive. At its essence, science is organized knowledge. Look at a dictionary under “science” and see if math doesn’t fit most of the definitions. Now look under “mathematics” – my dictionary starts the definition off with “the science of numbers…”
If you want to define science such that math doesn’t qualify, help yourself. But what come across as blanket statements saying in effect “math cannot be a science because…” seem to show limited understanding of both terms.
I’m not really qualified either. On these boards I once wrote that math was a way for scientists, and others, to deduce guaranteed results from a set of postulates. Several mathematicians immediately pointed out that on the frontiers of mathematics things are not as certain as I thought.
As a data point: the University I attended (York, in the UK) allowed mathematics graduates to choose whether they wanted a BSc or BA.