Was not trying to insult, but just pointing out how that phrase is more condescending rather than what most people think it comes out as.
True, perhaps. But how good is freedom and autonomy if your life is nasty, brutish, and short?
You want a justification for modern civilization?
Two words: ice cream.
Case proven, issue closed.
(Only half joking!)
Well also glasses. Can’t see a damn thing without them.
If not for modern civilization and technology, you’d be outside hunting and gathering, living a more “healthy lifestyle”, consumed with immediate matters of survival instead of worrying about the “meaning of life”. Do you think you would be happier “living your life” while spending far less time navel gazing?
It seems that you have taken the fictitious ancestor as a lout and a fool whom you will “strike down”, and how dare he/she tell you what to do, instead of taking it as intended, a gentle or even compassionate bafflement of someone parked in front of a display device for so long, for four or five hours a day, barely moving, watching say the lives of others instead of being out and about, going for a walk say, or talking in-person with friends, or hunting, or harvesting corn or wheat, or being with a lover, and so on and so on, anything that to most people, I would gladly hazard to credit, would constitute an average life lived.
That “average” is of course important, because there are people who can’t or don’t want to do those things, and that’s perfectly OK, and they want to chill and veg in front of their display devices for however long. But in the sense of the discussion you seem unable to avoid scratching the itch of your own anger, taking it all as some kind of personal lecture, rather than considering the average individual, who is crucial for discussion purposes. Do you really think that being parked in front of a display device for seven years of your life (the time estimated spent on just TV) would be considered by most people time spent living? (Full disclosure, I watch TV too.) And even anyway, it was just one example, and there are plenty others I’m sure of how modern tech is not all sunshine and rainbows, which to my bafflement as Quicksilver pointed out just upthread all go to supporting your thesis in the OP.
I don’t know. I know that the thought of looking for basic needs just to do the same thing again the next day is not a prospect that appeals to me. It seems like a trap to be honest. I am forever bound to the needs of my biology and not free to do anything else.
I’m just asking if it was a mistake, not that it was. It’s not really supporting anything. But if I did say it was a mistake then your metric of what an average life lived is like would not apply. In fact, that average is only able to be lived thanks to modern technology. What’s really baffling is how people could just hunt for things to eat and keep doing that for the rest of their lives. We hunt and eat so that tomorrow we can hunt and eat? Makes no sense to me.
As for the “average” person, that doesn’t really matter much to me. Average is something that changes with the times. High infant mortality was average in the past, public execution was average in the past. Using average as an indicator of any sort of “should” is a poor metric from the start. The average person probably believes in the myths surrounding love, or that cowboys were like they appear in movies. Public opinion means little. “Average” only matters as a point of reference when in regards to health. In regards to living life, it’s next to meaningless.
Reminds me of something along the lines of: “why do all that stuff when TV can provide it for you?” It’s essentially having the world at your couch.
The more I think about it, the more technology seems like a benefit really. Nature would not have given me much of a life. Near-sighted, Aspergers, and a deficient pituitary gland. I would have been chained by my biology with nothing to do about it. I wouldn’t have had much of a life worth living. I guess maybe I took things I have today for granted and missed the bigger picture, falling into the same "“appeal to nature” trap others have.
Ah. Just Asking Questions!
Then modern civilization is a good thing, because we can spend less of our time fulfilling basic needs, and much more of our time on leisure activities.
Do you imagine hunter-gatherers had “weekends?”
Of course not, they didn’t even have days of the week.
Although some would say that anything that isn’t focused on survival is " unproductive". I hear the words “decadent leisure time” thrown around a lot.
What’s wrong with a measure of decadence? Remember, I’m justifying modern civilization on the basis of ice cream.
Do you seriously object to movies, TV shows, romance novels, hamburgers, computer games, comic books, NASCAR, golf, contract bridge, and the billion and one other things we enjoy doing? Do you seriously insist that every second of every day be spent in “productive labor?”
Pfui!
But it’s my leisuretime activities that make me so attractive as a mate…
It’s just that they make it seem like our ancestors were superior to us today. That they didn’t have to worry about what leisure activity to do or how to spend their time since it was just dedicated to survival.
Yeah, because the first thing I think when I face the possibilities of my magic box o’ lights is “hmm, should I play Overwatch, Hearthstone, Street Fighter, or alternatively just give all this up and be forced to scrounge and track and hunt just to survive?”
If I wanted that, I’d give up all my belongings and become homeless.
I don’t want that. Neither do you - you’re still posting here. Why is that?
Trying to find a definitive counterpoint to those who argue against modernity and civilization.
Is that “superior” in your mind? I guess a guy in a wheelchair is “superior” to me, because he has to work a lot harder to do his daily round of work, shopping, going to movies, etc. Oh, lucky, lucky him: we should all lose the use of our legs so we won’t be inferior to him.
Okay, yeah, I’m being flippant and a bit rude, but, Jesus! Our ancestors were NOT “superior” to us! They knew far, far less than we do about the world, they were generally bigoted and nasty, and their lives were brutish and short.
As Budget Player Cadet says, you can get many of those advantages by becoming homeless. Is that a lifestyle you think of as “superior?” I certainly do not!
That’s already been settled several posts back. Eye glasses and ice cream. The rest is commentary.
The OP is right; modern civilization is a mistake. And thank god we have access to a messageboard and an international team of ignorance-fighting Dopers at our fingertips in order to explore this question. And eyeglasses to read the answers. And ice cream.
:dubious:
Definitive counterpoint #1: they typically do it on the internet.