Why the social implications, my question made it pretty clear.
That doesn’t mean rap is destructive. What if B.I.G. and Pac were country singers? Does that mean country would be damaging in that scenario? No. It’s feuds that would be distructive, not hip hop.
Wow, there are no words for an opinion this ignorant. Did you even read the links that you’re linking to?
Or how about the one that BrainGlutton that spells out in no uncertain terms Manson did not cause anything?
Okay, so I see what one reason people hate modern rap is that it encourages the “tough image”. Well, so what if it has a little violence. I never actually take the content seriously, I just laugh, joke, enjoy, and get geeked up (inside joke) to the beat. I don’t go shoot people. Have you people ever watched a violent action movie? Well I just enjoy it just like that, I don’t go around shooting people and go fuck your neighbor next door. Those that do take it literally, they just have outside issues that make them this way and would still be bad like that even if rapwasn’t around. Separate issue totally. Saying rap is destructive because of that is like saying Christianity is destructive because of bible literalists going being fools.
I’ve also seen the reasons “intolerance and abuse toward women”. Heard it all before. Please explain if you believe this.
This is a good question, because sometimes I worry that people that think hip-hop is destructive, but see no problem with violent movies must think very little of hip-hop fans.
If you can watch Bruce Willis blow up a car without wanting to blow one up yourself, then can’t you assume that gangsta music doesn’t make fans want to shoot people?
Perhaps people are thrown off by the fact that most street thugs are indeed rap fans. But I would hope they would think that through before they make the connection that rap music creates gangsters.
Gee, thanks that’s mighty civil of you.
Now maybe you can read the follow-up post (#14 ) so as to not spout ignorance yourself.
I didn’t say I thought Manson was at fault. I don’t. In fact, I’m a fan.
What I was saying is that if we are blaming musicians for things that they are not responsible for – like Manson – but that they nonetheless get wrongly blamed for – like Manson – then let’s compare both since there are lyrics about killing in both.
I think the hardcore critics of gangsta rap would probably also be opposed to action movies with what they’d consider ‘gratuitous’ violence in them too.
These people are utopians of a specific moral flavor that are a danger to society much more so than anything art can inspire in the long term.
Art is funny. Put mysogynistic, violent, materialistic ideas to a beat and it’s destructive. Put the same words in a script and you have The Sopranos, the best television show of all time.
It. Makes. No. Sense.
I agree, but the distinction I think that is made by critics is that some things have redemptive value and others less so.
There are plenty of redemptive values espounced in rap music. But you have to get into the genre to know this. Most anti-rap folk don’t really bother.
I think the difference is that we all know TV shows and movies are make-believe fantasies. But for some reason, we don’t see rappers as being just story-tellers of another type.
It’s not really a good comparison. Most actual fans of the Sopranos will admit that all of its characters are loathsome and that what makes the show great is the fact that it gives humanity to loathsome characters. It’s an intellectual show.
I think old-school gangsta rap is also very intellectual music and that a lot of people who are fans of it can understand that much of it is cautionary and extremely genuine. But the stuff that’s out now - the real low-ball stuff like Yung Joc and Lil John and 50 and what have you - is just kind of shallow and soulless, and most of its fans are idiotic punk kids. Shitty unoriginal beats and played out, boring lyrics. Eminem also has a lot of idiotic fans and his beats are only so-so but I think his lyrics are phenomenal and he definitely deserves to be taken seriously.
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. Americans have long been attracted to mobsters and gangsters, and it has nothing with to do with an intellectual attraction. We simply love what gangsters represent. Secretly, we all wish we belonged to the Family.
I used to get my pizza from a place that had a poster of Soprano’s capos (Silvio, Paulie, Big Paulie, etc.) on the wall. If that’s not hero worship of some kind, I don’t know what is.
I agree with you that current popular rap sucks. But the OP isn’t asking whether rap sucks. It’s asking whether it’s destructive. I would say that rap is no more destructive than any other mysogynistic and violent artform out there. Someone who listens to gangster rap is no more likely to kill someone than someone who is a fan of The Sopranos, The Goodfellas, or The Godfather.
Yeah monstro but you specifically brought up The Sopranos which is a show that has a very loyal cult of intellectual followers who watch it in a focused and analytical way. Of course there are also fans of it who are just attracted to the violence. The same way there is Scarface shit all over teenager’s stuff nowadays - I guarantee you that they have their Scarface poster in their dorm room because they think Scarface is badass, not because they view the movie as a deeply negative cautionary tale about a self-destructive and pathetic man. What I’m saying is that people who are truly into the show, as opposed to just thinking it’s badass, come away from it with something valuable.
Maybe there are fans of Yung Joc and Young Jeezy and Cam’Ron and all the other “in the club this, the escalade that” fools who somehow, in some perverse way, are able to glean some kind of valuable messages out of that kind of “music.” But I doubt it. On the other hand, Tupac, for instance, speaks very deeply to me and even though I’m an upper-class white guy, the moral lessons in his music about honesty and integrity still resonate with me. His music wasn’t about materialism and cars, it was about serious life and death shit. And there are a whole other class of rappers and hip hop artists both current and classic who do not rap about either materialism or violence - De La Soul, Atmosphere, Deltron3030, J5, I could go on forever.
But then, I didn’t really come here to say that modern mainstream rap is “destructive,” just that it’s mostly soulless and has few redeeming qualities in terms of music or lyrics.
Are you joking? Marilyn Manson has never killed anyone. Tupac and the Notorious BIG are both dead because of some feud. 50 Cent has been shot almost a dozen times. There was a shooting at a rap awards show for god’s sakes.
None of this stuff applies to Manson. The comparison is ridiculous and in the spirit of this board I’m trying to fight a little ignorance.
I generally keep my mouth shut on this kind of thing, because I honestly know very little about rap and hip-hop. I like a little of this, and a little of that, but I’m very much a dilettante.
But if we’re going to be “myth-busting,” then I feel I need to bring into question the assertion that The Roots are a ‘positive’ group. I mean, this song is pretty much an example of what Mosier was talking about; it certainly seems misogynistic to me. It’s all about glorifying cheating on a girl and having illegitimate children. Oh, and portrays the main female as a knocked-up gold-digger and nothing else. But the male singer, he’s a rolling stone who keeps his cool. :rolleyes:
Maybe I’m nitpicking, but I felt it bears mention. I can’t really recall a bunch of their songs, but what I can remember off the top of my head (snippets of a couple others), that song isn’t exactly atypical for them.
As to the OP, here’s my two cents.
1.) I believe art in any form has very little real impact on how most people behave, when isolated.
2.) However, when a certain level of saturation is achieved with a particular message or theme, it can definitely influence an entire culture.
3.) There will always be weirdos and head-cases who are, individually, radically more susceptible to messages in any media they are exposed to. But most of the time, when you learn details about their lives, there were many red-flag warnings long before they go off the deep end. I think responsibility, beyond their own, falls to the caregivers or officials who dealt with them, and not the artists’ whose work supposedly drove them to whatever they’ve done.
4.) While a culture or genre may have a diverse array of messages and true art, the majority of people are the lowest common denominator, and really do primarily listen to the mainstream pablum that gets pushed on them. Especially the easily-influenced punk-kids.
5.) I don’t know that rap is “destructive,” per se, but I find the extensive repetition of a number of negative messages in it concerning. The same way I find it disappointing or concerning when a successfull up-and-coming female actress, musician, etc (one that has real talent and isn’t primarily dependent on their looks) does a Maxim photoshoot.
Because it sends a bad message, and while I’m right there with people rolling their eyes at the public minded retired citizens and “won’t somebody think of the children!” types, I also think that our culture has become a little too blasé about these things and needs to rein it in a little. Censorship is (never) the answer, and there is no easy answer IMHO, but I do worry about these things. I was raised in such a way that I’m pretty out-of-touch with the mainstream of my own generation, and I was often surprised at the values, beliefs, and goals of the kids in my own highly-privileged neighborhood. shrugs
Yes it was.
Sure there were references to the high rolling lifestyle but it wasn’t a straight-up shameless glorification of materialism. The negative and dangerous side of the “game” was a major part of Tupac’s message.
“I made a G today” But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin’ crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that’s the way it is
I haven’t heard anything like that from Lil’ John, though maybe I haven’t listened to him enough (and don’t plan to.) Like I said before my problem with newer rap isn’t that it’s too “destructive,” it’s just that it’s too materialistic, obnoxious and soulless.
Wow. My jaw is dropped. You know what? I usually put my smart mouthed little ‘myth bustin’ schtick in quotes, like I noticed you did, but this time I most certainly am busting a myth, and I don’t need any freakin’ quotes around it.
The song you linked to is an A-1 example of what The Roots do. I have never in my life seen a piece of art more misinterpreted than you have misinterpreted that great song right there. You, sir, have taken an amazing song in which Black Thought narrates a haunting tale that makes those of us in the ghetto shake our heads and wipe tears of frustration from our eyes, and you have sullied it with your ignorant misunderstanding of it. You have broken my heart, H3Knuckles. I really mean that.
Please never do that again. Study hip-hop long and hard before you ever make a mistake like that again. And study the ghetto too. Study the lives and times of poor, struggling, disadvantaged people that feel hopelessness stealing their dreams from them every day.
And maybe you could study some poetry and literature in general while you are at it. I am no top scholar, but I certainy understand the writing technique that Black Thought uses in that song, and if you don’t, you are probably missing out on a whole lot of classic writing.
Missed the edit window, but I am still a little hype on this topic. I am stunned to the point that I think you must be pulling one over on me. Did you not understand the angle he was playing? And furthermore, did you really miss all of the metaphore of the song? Where you honestly whooshed by the band on such a scale as it seems? I hope you come back and expound upon this for me, because I am completely stunned and confused, and yes, I will admit it, a smidge angry too.