Is Neo-Conservatism a Jewish Movement?

[Captain_Amazing]

@tomndebb

Given that the term was coined by one of the movement’s founders, odd claims that it is some Liberal plot seem strained.

Actually it was cointed by one of the movement’s opponents, socialist writer Michael Harrington, in the magazine “Dissent”. He also called them “Socialists for Nixon”. It’s true that Irving Kristol then later picked the term up, but he wasn’t the one who coined it.

[tomndebb]

I was under the impression that the claim for Harrington was not proved, but lacking an OED-like citation, I’ll accept that. (“Socialists for Nixon” predated the word Neoconservative by several years, in any event)

[DSeid]

How do they just know this stuff???

Wow.

[Jackmannii]

It’s amazing.

[zeeny]

@DSeid

Zeeny, it’s even worse than that.

:eek:

There are outside powers at play, but the best interests of the Palestinians is not their interest. Their interests are in maintaining a conflict. For many Arab leaders an Israeli boogeyman helps distract the populus from complaining too much about they are abused by their own leadership, the lack of human rights, the lack of opportunities, etc. For religious radicals it gives an other to rally against and keeps their ball (of a return to the days of Caliphate with them in command of course) still in play. For the old guard PLO it maintains a hold on the feifdom and on the chances for graft that such presents.

This is what I was alluding to (sadly).

Maybe if there were not so many outside powers interested some homegrown leadership could realize how pragmatic solutions that focus more on resources, co-investments, and tax revenues than a couple of square miles here or there, is the only way forward. At least the only way that gives the next generation of Palestinians other career choices than squalor, graft, or suicide bomber.

I agree. But the debate never gets that far on messageboards, does it? I wonder if it gets that far anywhere else, beyond lip service. Do you know of any current initiatives you can point me to?

As to what is a fantasy … well I’ve been fortunate enough to see quite a few of my fantasies come true. But realistically there is a generation that needs to live in peace and economic viability before any thought of a federation can even be floated. Being realistic about a timeframe is no fault.

On paper I’d agree - but isn’t that a Catch-22 dilemma? How can “a generation” live in peace and economic viability under the current circumstances?

Are there any viable economic models being floated right now, as a way to peace?

I assume that is the “boring stuff” we might not hear about in mainstream news. But do proposed economic models even exist for our perusal? I’d really like to know.

[DSeid]

Sometimes these boards get there, Zeeny.

It has been a rough spot to get off of. I doubt Abbas has what it would take to offset all those other forces. I don’t know if anyone could. I think that it may end up being that Isael will have to do some more things unilaterally, and leave the Palestinians to create something for themselves on the other side of the big friggin’ fence. Without the means to attack Israel the terroristic forces lose some steam. Meanwhie the day to day housekeeping of a country becomes more salient. At some point the focus would shift from winding back the clock to a day before Israel, or before 69, etc. to building economic opportunities for tomorrow. And because open borders with non-hostile relations are in Israel’s best interests, she’ll be ready to talk.

[zeeny]

@DSeid

Sometimes these boards get there, Zeeny.

Really? That’s saying a lot. It’s a touchy subject, even under the most reasonable conditions.

I’m certainly no expert, but I often think that it will end up to be Israel herself who emerges as the viable partner/patron for the hapless Palestinians. It doesn’t seem very likely today, but then nothing positive seems likely today. Then again, the hard-liners can’t hold sway forever, can they?