So it’s cool if I call MtF transsexuals “shemales” because that’s the word we all used when I was growing up? Can I quote you on that?
I am not sure you get this, but the euphemism treadmill is not some kind of literal treadmill that you are trapped forever on until you die unless you bravely resist its lure. It’s just something that happens. It’s not bad or good.
Except it wasn’t really the word you used growing up. It’s never been the “in” term for transsexual (outside the porn industry) the way “negro” once was for black people, and the way “black people” was when I grew up.
EDIT: that’s not to say I would care if you used it. That term doesn’t particularly bother me, though it’s inaccurate. You may as well be calling me a kangaroo for all the relevance that word has.
It absolutely was. Sorry.
Except it really wasn’t. I know this because before Ray Blanchard used the term in his Journal of Nervous and Mental disease, it meant different things entirely - all of which were equally obscure. So unless you were raised in the 90s and one of your parents were in a field that would be familiar with Blanchard’s work (and were stupid enough to think of Blanchard as anything but a quack) AND spoke to you about such obscure things, you really didn’t grow up using that word for transsexual.
Too late to edit my last post, but I forgot to also mention that I’m talking about when a formerly “PC” word loses favour and becomes “un-PC”. For example, negro. Since I was raised with “black” being the polite word, that’s what I use and have no intention to change. Even if you did use the word “shemale” as an extremely young child, it certainly wasn’t the “PC” term at any point.
Newsflash: When I grew up, we didn’t have “PC” and nobody gave a shit about being fair or compassionate to transsexuals. In many places, they still don’t.
Guess what? That’s no excuse.
I was using it for a rhetorical flourish, not simply referring to it. Had I simply been mentioning the word - as I will later in this post - I would not have self-censored. Plus, while you and most of the people participating in this thread know me (I would hope) well enough to know that I am not in the habit of using the word, lots of people read the boards who don’t.
That’s beside the point, though. I am not “only finding fault” in those who are bothered by it. I acknowledged earlier in the thread that there are probably some people who use it because it sounds like nigger and not in spite of the fact. However, there is no reason to believe that most people do.
No, because you’re talking about completely different things. It’s not as though black people chose to be called negroes.
I don’t know when you grew up. It’s not relevant either. The fact is unless you were born in the post-2000 era when the term had entered common parlance by way of the sex and porn industries - or you were a child prodigy reading psychological textbooks at three years old - you did not grow up using the word in that context.
If you’re willing to stay up to date with what formerly acceptable - nay, even “correct” - words are later deemed unacceptable, and modify your vocabulary to suit, great! You’re a nicer person than me. I personally have no desire to go to all that trouble.
I would absolutely not use the word under the circumstances you laid out.
Why? Because in that circumstance, my job is to be a zealous, effective advocate for my client, within the ethical boundaries of the legal profession. Those are the priorities in play. By the same token, I might engage in other behavior that people unfamiliar with the rules of advocacy might find even more shocking – such as not admitting to the jury that I know my client molested the child he’s on trial for molesting, because he admitted it to me.
But my general conversation is bounded by no such rules. In my general conversation, I am content to possibly offend an idiot in the service of being able to use the full and rich precise language choices offered to me by English. In a trial, I am absolutely not willing to chance offending a juror, even if that juror is an idiot, unless the other harms that would result from not offending the juror are much greater.
So I don’t find “the closing argument of a trial” a useful analogue to general conversation.
I can count on one hand the number of people I’ve encountered who have used to this word in my presence, who did so with a pure heart. The number is zero.
I read a lot, so I come across it with enough frequency in literature that I don’t bat an eye. But in speech? From regular people having mundane conversations? Never.
The only time I see people using “niggardly” is in meta discussion whine tests like this thread and when someone is purposefully being a trolling asshole coward.
So tell me, given these experiences, why should I automatically assume benign intentions if I were to overhear a stranger, for instance, say our president acted niggardly with his concessions to the GOP? If I were to get in a heated debate with a poster here, and they, knowing full what I’m black, said I was niggardly when giving credit to their arguments (and I could totally see Shodan or Bricker pulling such a move), should I not think anything of it just because their usage was technically accurate?
Or maybe the word is only safe if the context has a white person referring to another as such, eh? But if that’s the case, that suggests that maybe, just maybe, the word is too loaded to truly be serviceable and maybe, just maybe, “miserly” or “tightfisted” would be much better alternatives.
Believe it or not, you have been misinformed about this matter of historical etymology. Maybe you didn’t know it yesterday, but here it is now, from a primary source: In the suburbs of Philadelphia in at least the early-to-mid 1990s, the word “shemale” was a term commonly used by schoolchildren to denote, among other things, a person presenting as a woman who appears to possess male genitalia. (And by the way, for most of American history, the only context in which the average person had probably ever encountered an evident transsexual would have been in works of pornography or in secret sex-worker encounters. When would they have learned a polite word for something that was never discussed in polite company?) The other one I can remember is “he-she”, which is if anything even worse. Keep in mind that users of these terms might not necessarily have meant any offense–they might not have known any other word at the time. I know I didn’t.
…but now I do. I’ve learned that even if I don’t mean anything by using them, words dating from a time and place where repression and mockery were the norm carry derogatory connotations and are hurtful towards real human beings who don’t deserve to be verbally marginalized for the sake of some masturbatory “language preservation” initiative.
It doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to be nicer than a very inconsiderate person.
Yeah, excuse me if I don’t deign to reply to the first part of your post, I have no interest in treating as valid a contradiction of the literature (incidentally, I did ask some older women who were transitioned at the time before explaining that, and they call bullshit too).
As for “an inconsiderate person” - I am considerate. If I wasn’t I wouldn’t have bothered to put any thought into this. I’ve considered the pros and cons and have decided I’m not in favour of peoples’ vocabularies being subject to the whims of the terminally offended.
Okay, what do you think we called them? Hijra? Berdache? Lady-boy? Or do you think you were the first transsexual to ever exist and you invented all those words yourself in 2007? Why in the world would I lie about this? Or do you think this is some kind of CIA-implanted false memory? How could you or any of your friends possibly know that my claim is false? Wikipedia confirms that it’s been in use for decades. Is it lying, too? Did you and your friends attend Welsh Valley Middle School too? (If so, Go Dragons!)
Come, now. Kindly provide a journal link to this magical literature that puts the lie to my childhood memories or admit that you are not, in fact, the Omniscient, All-Seeing Supreme Authority on English Terms Used In The American Northeast To Describe Gender-Variant Individuals In The Late 20th Century.
Really? Because your posts on this message board so far seem to have been quite poorly received by everyone who has offered their opinion on the matter. Have you considered switching forums? I hear Metafilter is nice this time of year.
I’ve already told you where to look. As for why your claim is false - I’m calling bullshit because I’ve been told be people a lot more educated on the topic than you that it’s bullshit.
As for that last thing - what is this I don’t even. No, seriously. What does your perception of the reactions to my posts have to do with how considerate I am? I consider what I say carefully, the fact it isn’t well received doesn’t change that.
I’m going to put you on ignore now, because I really, really can’t be bothered with your bullshit attitude.
You’re not allowed to tell other posters you’re putting them on ignore (except in the Pit), and in general the tone of your post isn’t appropriate for this forum. If you keep posting in this thread, you need to restrain yourself.
Wasn’t aware of the no informing about ignore thing, sorry.
Oh? What source did you cite that lends evidence to your odd allegations? I’m afraid it must have slipped my notice. Please do feel free to repeat yourself! I really am dreadfully curious. I am sorry to inform you, though, that vague references to “the literature” do not suffice.
Cheerfully withdrawn. I changed my mind and am now greatly impressed by your poise and decorum.
If you want to communicate effectively to those people, yes, of course. Why would you continue to speak in a way that you know will invite derision? Unless, of course, that’s your goal.
Perhaps they should. But you only have control over your own behavior. You can’t MAKE other people think that a word means what you think it means. All you can do is deal with the consequences of what they do think it means. And that means adapting your language to your audience.
Of course, that’s only if your goal is to communicate information clearly with a minimum of friction. Perhaps your goal is to encourage friction, to make some people a little uncomfortable and on edge when they’re around you. That’s certainly a thing some people do with language, but I don’t think that it’s something a 4th grade teacher should be doing when she’s at work.
So would you agree that a 4th grade teacher might also have professional priorities that would preclude using “niggardly” when she’s at work?