Is now a good time to talk about gun safety laws?

Great Debates
41

When some dude on the subway is beating on his girlfriend, everyone politely minds their own business, in case he has a gun.

I say treat guns like tools, like actual real world tools, not evil killing devices, or symbols of our freedom, and definitely not like toys / hobbies / amusements.

I swear, if tens of thousands of Americans were killed / hospitalized every year with chainsaw wounds, if kindergartners had to be taught how to deal with a chainsaw attack in their classroom, we would have a serious discussion about chainsaw availability. Namely, how do we do the work without tools that are this dangerous?

42

I know you were responding to Czarcasm, but here’s my stance:

I am 100% opposed to human sacrifice. And quite frankly, that’s what we’re talking about here: the right to sacrifice other people’s lives in order to be able to worship guns in the way you want.

The practice of human sacrifice was considered an abomination by the Old Testament writers, and it’s still an abomination. Time to bring it to an end, the sooner the better.

43

It is unreasonable, as I pointed out, to continuously ask it of only one side of the debate.

44

Show me another poster whose posts consists of just short questions or pithy comments, instead of actual opinions or solutions.

45

Do you know that the % of guns owned vs the number of guns used in murders is tiny? There are like 400Million guns in the USA. About 10000 of them are used per year to murder. One gun in 400000.

You might as well say "I am 100% opposed to human sacrifice. And quite frankly, that’s what we’re talking about here: the right to sacrifice other people’s lives in order to be able to worship tobacco in the way you want." since 500000 American die each year from smoking, and only about 40million Americans smoke. Smokers murder 50000 non smokers per year, so your chance of being murdered by a smoker as opposed to a gun is fifty times higher. Unless of course you are a smoker, in which case you contribute to that 50000 and are killing yourself.

46

I have 0 issues with the various changes you would make with your “political influence”, and note one change that you didn’t make -

Were I king of the world, I would also install mandatory registration of all purchases, either through licensed dealers or personal sales.

Living in the Blue Chicago area, right next to Red Indiana and just south of Redish Wisconsin, there is a serious problem in Chicago with straw purchases. Chicago has strict rules about gun shops; Illinois has strict rules; guns in Chicago are still plentiful because of straw purchases, gun show loophole, and internet purchases. Yeah, much of this would also be taken care of with your mandatory national registration; think of it as an additional check on the system. Would also help enforce those “dealer” licenses - how many guns do you sell before you become a dealer?

47

We all know that, we just don’t care, because the number of guns owned is so stupidly large, that the number of murders isn’t tiny despite the itty bitty percentages. When the number of murders becomes tiny, I’ll start to be OK with guns.

Is the number of murders tiny?

48

Since even one murder isnt "tiny’ the argument is pointless.

Exactly.

49

We aren’t talking about one though, are we? In 2018, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 16,214. This was a 6.2 percent decrease from the 2017 estimate, a 14.5 percent increase from the 2014 figure, and a 5.3 percent increase from the number in 2009. I got those states from the fbi.gov page, btw.

Talk about taking a quote out of context. The whole quotes gives an entirely different meaning that actually makes sense.

50

No, it isn’t. The point is the extraordinary number of gun homicides compared, say, to Canada right next door, or Europe, or Australia. There is a valid and important question about why. You may as well try to make the same calculation about how “few” mass shootings there are compared to the number of guns. But that conveniently overlooks the fact that it’s an epidemic that occurs semi-regularly in the US, and in the US alone. There is also a valid and important question here about why.

The point, then, is that you have a crappy argument that uses irrelevant statistics in a poor attempt to defend rampant gun proliferation.

51

Modnote: Do not misquote people my snipping away context. This will generate a warning in the future.

52

Of which about 10000 or so were caused by guns.

No doubt, that number is too large. So is the 6000 or so murders committed without guns. Even one is too many.

So what are we to do? I suggested solutions, real, workable solutions that will help keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Solutions within the Constitution.

Saying “gun worship is teh Evil!!!” is not a solution. Nor are guns 'worshipped"- saying that 80 Million American ‘worship’ their guns is ridiculous. (There are a few gun nuts that own like dozens and dozens of firearms that might come close, but they are super tiny minority).

53

Maybe that is the reason nobody in this thread has said it.

54

Comes pretty damn close.

55

Dr. Death,

From one “physician” to another, do you have any comments on the common sense suggestions made by ParallelLines or myself? Notably, (and, PL, sorry if I’m paraphrasing you incorrectly)

  • federal registration of all guns
  • safety class as a requirement to purchase a new firearm
  • using a firearm during a crime should be a multiplier to sentence
  • mandatory trigger lock or safe
  • red-flag laws for mental health and gun ownership
  • national registration of all gun sales
56

Um. No, it isn’t in many cases. I think my earlier post (sorry for the book) made my opinions known about gun control, but I wanted to talk about this specific point, and what it may mean for the future. I personally have possession of approximately a dozen firearms. I have purchased 5 of them over the last 20 or so years, but that’s because they are different tools for different jobs.

I have a full sized pistol that is most fun for target shooting. I have 2 different pistols for carry purposes (one compact, one sub-compact). I have a Ruger Ranch because it is a gorgeous gun and fun to shoot. I have a Rossi lever action PCC in .357 because it’s even more fun to shoot and since it’s a pistol caliber, I can use the same ammunition my wife uses in her .38 Revolver.

But I have another 7 or so that I’ve inherited from my Father-in-law, who in turn inherited from his father, who passed them on to me because he was lacking space to securely store them. Which is because while he hunted, and his father hunted, and his brothers and so on and so forth, in the current generation, there is only me and my wife who even target shoot. Most of them are long guns that were used during hunting season an a yearly basis, largely bolts and a few semi-autos, but it as a considerable stack of firearms.

Changing patterns in urbanization and regulation of hunting can cause strange concentrations of firearms. And if the trend continues, we may end up with a reduction in ownership, as people like myself sell off collections of inherited weapons (although since many of these are semi-heirloom status, it may be hard). And admittedly, I believe the focus of this thread is and should be the proliferation of military styled high capacity firearms, the vast majority of which I suspect are safe queens, not actually used. But for a lot of people, it’s the fun of the customization that makes the AR platform so attractive - just like pimping out your car, you pimp out your gun until it is totally custom, yo.

Which is where I disagree with @RTFirefly, in that for the majority of gun owners (note, I say majority, there are absolutely people out there that treat them with cultish worship) there is the large element of the almost geeky collectability and customization that makes them mulishly unreasonable about their ‘babies.’ I have seen the same intransigent, bloody minded rejection of several of my college friends (years ago) that found their favorite Magic The Gathering Builds declared unbalanced, or illegal for tournament play. It is for many an extensive hobby, replete with emotional, financial and social investment - and when people dismiss all those elements or reduce it to a single facet, those people are going to be equally dismissive in turn.

57

Given that for a significantly larger amount of time the only militia weapon was a sharp piece of metal ‘one’ would be stupid to even suggest that argument.
And yes, knives were never the first choice, but it’s just as illegal to carry a bayonet or sword.

The vast majority, I assume, of paratroopers would disagree that their issued switchblades were not “militia”.
https://www.google.com/search?q=paratrooper+switchblade&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0vMahtczvAhWbElkFHXM-BAAQ_AUoAnoECAEQBA&biw=1066&bih=496&dpr=1.5

58

I am sorry, i didnt mean to imply that anyone with lots of guns was either a gun nut or worshiping their guns.

What I meant was that for a tiny few of the subclass that that own a lot of guns, you might say they are gun nuts, etc.

I know a guy has over 100 guns- all military =all WW2 or prior. He is just a collector.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

59

Even more so than guns. As far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) California is the only state you can open carry a sword, but it still has to be sheathed.

60

  1. Even guns in possession , they wont be grandfathered? No, that wont work.

  2. If the class is cheap and easily accessible, perhaps online. Not having it cost $500 and be held once a year in a undisclosed location.

  3. Sure. But for murder? dead is dead. If a firebomb worse than a gun?

  4. In homes with kids.

  5. Here i like the ACLUs viewpoint,"To be constitutional, however, they must at a minimum have clear, nondiscriminatory criteria for defining persons as dangerous and a fair process for those affected to object and be heard by a court."

  6. Except transfers by death or to close family members. A dad should be able to give his son his .22 rifle on his 18th birthday without committing a crime.