Very nice job, Andros. Make the child feel good about itself and that it, as a fellow human being, has to do the same for others – which leads to mutual respect – and half the problems of the world would solve themselves. However, that’s too simple a solution for most people.
The appropriate part comes from living in that society; the inappropriate part must be taught, and thus is harder. My kids know that they don’t drop trou in the middle of a restaurant. We didn’t have to specifically teach them that; they learned it by watching how other people acted in a restaurant (although we are working on the 4-year-old to close the door of the stall). They don’t know that someone rubbing their penus doesn’t have their best interests in mind; they don’t see what’s wrong with it. How do you tell your kid it’s wrong? More precisely, what do you say when they ask “Why is it wrong?” We ended up with the “Because it is.” answer.
“The large print givith, and the small print taketh away.”
Tom Waites, “Step Right Up”
I simply don’t see how simple nudity, no sexual activity in progress, can be bad for children of any age. Is there any independent study of the psychology of children whose parents frequently took them to nude resorts and topless beaches? I’ve seen such studies advertised in nudist publications, but you wouldn’t expect an unbiased view to be advertised there, right?
SIDE ISSUE: And there is (was?) a racist double standard, too. Why is it okay to show naked African breasts in National Geographic to children but not naked white breasts in other magazines? Or is that double standard going away too?
>< DARWIN >
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Thanks, Poly. I don’t soapbox much, but when I do I try to do it right.
Always a hard issue, with any touchy subject. I think “because I say so” can be a very reasonable answer for a certain age. As the child grows up, more explanation is needed. With the origin of babies, for example, “mommy’s tummy” might be great for a 5 year old, while a detailed description of the reproductive system might happen at ten, and the more specific emotional and fiscal responsibilities might wait until 12 or 13. Or whatever’s right for the kid.
jab:
I think it is, but I could be wrong. I don’t read NG as much as I did when I was 13 (so sue), but I read every other month or so, and I haven’t seen nekkid people in a while.
But I don’t see that as a racist issue, really. There just aren’t many light-skinned groups without nudity (female breast exposure, at least) taboos.
-andros-
That first quotation was from PTVroman, uncredited. Looked like I was quoting Polycarp.
Sorry 'bout that.
Good reading!
Even if you, as a parent, feel comfortable watching nudity or being nude around or in front of your children, it isn’t always your comfort that counts.
As adults you have formed a lot of your feelings, opinions, securities, self image, taboos - it’s not the same for kids and it changes for kids from year to year. A child who can wear nothing but undies one year needs to be fully dressed the next. Will be seen naked but not half dressed as in a slip or briefs. It quite variable.
A German couple I knew felt that the family should now and forever shower together. But the developing teenage female no longer was willing to be seen naked by her 10-11 year old brother. So it isn’t just the developmental stages of the individual children but when there is more than one child, how they feel about each other.
As for videos - it’s hard for me to imagine a 6th grader really enjoying a sexy movie with his parents the same way he would with 3 of his 6th grade friends. Same applies for girls.
Polycarp wrote:
Good thing she didn’t ask him, “Where’s your spleen?”!
Or “where’s your lunch?”
Seriously, my position has been expounded by those above. The nudity taboos in American culture are absurd. I consider it abusive to teach children that human bodies are objects of shame. However, it is important to let the child know the boundaries within which nudity and touching are appropriate. Personally, I do not find “don’t let strangers touch your penis” to be any more difficult to explain than “don’t accept candy from strangers”. We do our children a disservice when we let our own embarrasment interfere with teaching them what tehy need to know.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
When I was in Madrid early last year there was a film out, whose title escapes me, but the posters for the film featured a woman’s body from about the neck to about the navel, one breast FULLY exposed. These posters were up all over the Metro and must have been seen by tens of thousands of little kids. Nobody seemed overly concerned with it.
Okay, I got clearance from Gaudere to provide this link. This site is quite amusing and racy, but the ADVERTISEMENTS should NOT be clicked on if you do not like pornography. If you do, you’ll get one of those pornographic sites that send you to another site if you try to close the window. It’s like cutting off the head of Hydra.
The site is www.flashmountain.com Contained within are photos of women flashing themselves in places like malls and street corners and on the Splash Mountain log ride at Disneyland, hence the name of the site. (There’s a camera on the ride. Some women raised their shirts and the photos were smuggled out of The Happiest Place on Earth [TM] and onto the web.) In some of these photos, the women are FULLY nude and not at all shy!
Anyway, I don’t think it’s bad for children to look at the site itself, but letting them see the sites that are advertised on it would not be a good idea, IMHO.
(My favorite is the Backyard Flasher. As they say on the home page, “Each of her breasts is bigger than your head.” And she jumps rope… :eek: There is a video clip, too.)
So, after looking at Flash Mountain, would any of you let your kids look?
>< DARWIN >
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