Not only did Trump want Obama’s college records but he wanted “colleges records and applications” and “passport applications and records.” And it had to be given to Trump within 7 days.
College applications from 33+ years ago? Does anyone even remember all the colleges they applied to? Do those colleges keep a record of all applications for over 30 years? Could you contact them all and have them send a copy of your application quickly enough that you could then send it to someone else within 7 days?
A passport application? That’s what you fill out and give to the state department in order to get a passport. It’s probably impossible to get. Obama traveled to Pakistan in 1981 and would have had a passport then, if not sooner. Did Trump expect his passport application from 31 years ago?
Of course, since it’s all so vague, if it were possible to get those things and he had handed them over, Trump would have just said he didn’t believe they were complete and refuse to give the $5 million.
Someone with bad hair is really clutching at staws, isn’t he?
Being a college graduate isn’t a qualifying factor. Age and citizenship are.
It seems to me there was some argument that, when George Romney made a run at the presidency, he technically wasn’t qualified because he was born in, I think, Mexico. But he claimed he did qualify because his birth was in an American institution–probably a hospital–which was considered an American zone.
Ironic, isn’t it?
Although I must say Mitt never sank to that level of compaingning. He’s a smart man; he knows it would have backfired.
His SATs say otherwise. If you have some other data (as opposed to anecdotes) about his intelligence, we’d be happy to see it.
As for the OP, I have to wonder if any US presidential candidate has ever released his college transcripts. Sure, some have been leaked, but has any candidate put them out there like tax returns?
Also, it should be noted that the CT about Obama extends beyond what grades he might have made, but an interest in what courses he took, especially as an undergrad. Marxist Ideology 101, or something along those lines. n.b: Not posting that to imply I believe it, but just to explain the CT more broadly.
I had to look this up, because I have no idea and, really, it doesn’t mean jack shit, but, for anyone who does care and doesn’t feel like Googling, his SAT verbal was apparently 566 and Math was 640, both out of 800. Both respectable scores. Slightly underpar for an Ivy league, but nothing indicative of academic stupidity or anything like that. I wouldn’t be disappointed if my (at this point, theoretical) child got that score. (Well, or whatever today’s equivalent is–the SAT is now out of 2400, isn’t it?)
Hm. I remember he made at least one joke to that effect. But, yes, he largely relied on his pet commentators and other not-officially-officially-with-me people to do that kind of thing for him.
I know of Silicon Valley companies that don’t even interview people with GPAs below a certain level, and I know of one request for a transcript. However, none of the candidates were ever the equivalent of President of the Law Review - and once you are experienced, no one cares.
Bush’s SATs were WAY on the lower end for an Ivy League college. I scored in the mid-1400s around the same time (1460, if I remember correctly, also with higher math than verbal) and I was embarrassingly low for a Ivy League college. My three roommates freshman year were discussing/boasting about ours, and two of them had 1600s and the other had high 1500s. Maybe Bush was an affirmative action applicant? --that would explain how he got in.
I would be disappointed if my dog scored in the mid-1200s. He knows how to roll over, sit, fetch, and lie down–almost has “heel” completely mastered, at which point I will put up a big banner saying “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!”
Bush was typical of someone from a rich family entering an Ivy League school in 1964. He wasn’t brilliant, but he was smart enough and worked hard when necessary so as to get by. Given his grades at Phillips Academy and his SAT scores, he probably wouldn’t have gotten into Yale except for some pull from his father. Given his grades at Yale, he probably wouldn’t have gotten into Harvard Business School except for some pull from his father. He moved around a lot in businesses, probably because of some pull from his father. At 42 he was finally successful at a business and ran the Texas Rangers for a while.
All this would be utterly unremarkable except for one thing. Except for this thing, he was just another rich kid who wasn’t anything brilliant but could get into good schools because of his family and then get good business opportunities because of them too. (He also drank too much until he was about 40.) Had he spent the rest of his life as the head of the Texas Rangers he would be quite typical. The only remarkable thing is that he got elected governor and then President.
Burns was operating under a common misconception when he wrote this in 1956. Boller does a pretty good job dissecting the exchange in his book Not So! from Oxford University Press. Nice little read.
Maybe it’s changed. Bush’s scores aren’t fantastic, and I can’t speak to the scores of the time. When I applied to schools in 1993, the Ivies were something like 1250-1405 for the 25%-75%-ile.
Actually, looking up the data, the oldest numbers I can find are the class of 1980. The 25%ile for verbal from 1976-1990 was in the range of 610-620. The 25%ile for math in that same period was 620-660. So, his numbers were sub-par, but I’m not certain I would characterize it as 'embarrasingly low" if those numbers are similar for when he entered Yale.
Look, I scored better than Bush, too, on my SATs, but his number is hardly crazy stupid or anything. And it’s pretty insulting to all the smart people out there who scored in the mid-1200s and lower, saying that you’d be disappointed if your dog scored in the mid-1200s. Now that is dumb.
A friend likes to point out the George W Bush was rejected by the law school at the University of Texas, a few years before he attended Harvard Business School.
No, that is not what I asked. I did not ask if it has never been standard for presidents or presidential nominees to release their college transcripts. Try again.
Is Obama the first president with a college degree who has declined to release his college records?
The ones I know of before him all released their college records no matter if they were good or bad.
The fact that it is old news is not part of the question or the answer.
If there was a president other than Obama that you know of that had been through college and did not release the records, tell me. Otherwise either say you do not know or… here is an idea… don’t contribute.
No, that is not what I asked. I did not ask if it has never been standard for presidents or presidential nominees to release their college transcripts. Try again.
By the way, the tone of that response sounds defensive. Why is that? Are you being defensive?
Cite. Please provide documentation of other presidents who have publicly released them, rather than having them leaked without their permission. So far, you’ve provided no evidence that any president has ever released any of their records.
A message board devoted to fighting ignorance. It’s taking longer than we thought…
You’ve been answered multiple times.
Nope. Not a single President has willingly released his college records.
Name them.
It is, however, relevant.
None of them released their records.
It’s not standard. No previous President has released his college transcripts. Why is it so important that we see Obama’s? What are you hoping to find?
Answering your question and pointing out that it’s been asked purely for political “gotcha ya” points isn’t being defensive. I’m also a little unclear as to how you’re getting a “defensive” tone from someone’s text.
To my knowledge, no president had ever released his college records. I think half a dozen posters made this clear, so I am wondering if maybe you’re asking a much pickier question about the idea of declining to release those records. The answer in that case might be yes, Obama is the first. That’s because as far as I know no other president has been asked. By the time Bush was elected a newspaper had already reported on his grades. He did not release them. John Kerry released his college transcripts some time after he lost the election. John McCain’s class rank was reported years before he ran for president. I don’t know who else had to put up with this request.
But if you’re looking at it that way, I don’t think Obama has declined to release his transcripts. He just hasn’t done it yet.
No, they didn’t. I explained this already.
There’s no reason to complain about contextual information.