Is Oriental now an official slur?

Oh, this opens up a world of questions. My personal opinion is that the PC types like to re-arrange the language every few years, just so that they can feel superior, and make all the rest of us non-PCers feel oh-so inferior until we get clued in and do it their way. And many of us willingly buy into their guilt trip, and start using the new, but in no way improved term. Until they change it again. Assholes.

Personally, I don’t think “Chinaman” is any more offensive than “Frenchman” or “Englishman” (although I am none of the above and therefore don’t rate an opinion). Hey, whatever happened to “sticks and stones”? The world needs some thicker skins and people with less free time on their hands.

Okay, I’m done ranting now. Sorry for the digression…Timmy

p.s. - I agree, Mexicans and Canadians, and many others, have just as much right to call themselves “Americans” as do USA folks. NOW I’m done.

Well, I’ll share my impression of what has caused the change over the past 20 years or so.

[As a caveat, I come from white bread no crust roots. Speak Mandarin fluently, speak basic Japanese, spouse is a Chinese citizen, duaghter is a dual national Chinese/American, have a degree in Mandarin, lived in East Asia for 15 years, and grew up in the home of a decorate WW2 Pacific Theater and Korean Conflict combat vetern who used what were clearly derogatory terms to refer to Orientals/Asians.]

Certainly in the mid-80’s, Asian-American female politically correct college students at the University of California, Davis, were happy to be called “ornamentals” by their buddies. My half-Japanese girlfriend and her Asian friends all thought it was “cute”. Please note, these were the same people that occupied “Nelson Mandella Hall” 24 hours a day, and were arrested at a UC Regents meeting for protesting aparthied.

Now, I’ll be the first to admit that even 20 years ago, Oriental seemed a bit old fashioned or archaic. Asian was certainly a more used term. Many Universities still had Oriental Studies or Departments of Oriental Languages. My former Chinese professor said that the term “he’s gone oriental” was not a complementary one and used in the 1950’s. However, gradually the term Oriental left a bad taste but my prof didn’t have an explanation why.

My guess is that two catch phrases came into being. I’m not sure who originated these catch phrases but they have taken on a life of their own. The first is that “Oriental is a rug”, by implication that oriental refers to things and not people. Maybe the word “oriental” is evolving that way, but check the Tammerlane dictionary quotations. I saw on on-line default dictionary today that had the “oriental is a rug” and that it is now considered a slur. Go back to Kipling (who some people think is a racist, I think he’s a product of his time and will gladly argue with those that hold the former view), who uses the word “oriental” a lot.

The second catchphrase is some degree of “oriental is equivalent to niggr/negro/colored.” Personally, while this may be an easy analogy to make, and IMHO may even be a pretty good one with the term “colored”, it is too easy to become “or**ntl is the same as ngg*r.” One races struggle is simply not the same as another races. Equivalent perhaps but not the same.

Regardless, once these two catchphrases entered the US mainstream, then it’s all over. Personally, I’ve dug around a lot trying to figure this issue out in *my mind *, and the best explanation I’ve come up with is that the word oriental is a colonial era term, and has a inherent negative bias. Certainly, none of the dozen or so Asian-American studies programs and University groups with web pages that I contacted were able to provide more of an explanation.

That old thread that I cited above, I repeatedly tried to pin down posters as to why Oriental was offensive. Most just said they didn’t like the term. Of course, I was a younger poster and definately a jerk in that 5 page thread. Regardless, I would really appreciate if someone could explain the historic context or non personal reasons that make “oriental” such a distasteful one now.

Well, most Chinese Americans would disagree. Ask yourself what you mentally picture with the terms “Frenchman” or “Englishman” and “Chinaman”. “Chinaman” to me would be the Charley Chan stereotypical buck tooth, broken English, fortune cookie proverbs, etc. Watch the movie Chinatown for just one example (Jack Nicholson’s “Chinaman” joke).

Now, maybe you don’t have this connotation, but probably if you think about it you can find a lot of negative stereotypes with the word “Chinaman” and probably not a single positive stereotype.

Dang double posting.

One example regarding Oriental often cited is the so-called “Oriental Exclusion Acts.” When I looked this up last year, these were actually a series of acts that spanned many decades. As far as I could find on the web, these acts eventually many many years later became known as the “Oriental Exclusion Acts.” However, the name at the time were simple bureaucratic terms I can’t remember without the word “Oriental.” I have never seen anything to indicate that at the time these acts were in force, that they were referred to as “Oriental Exclusion Acts.” If anyone has some good info on this subject, I would be interested in seeing it.

>> Oriental Exclusion Acts

Never heard of such thing. I’ve heard of the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and other subsequent Chinese exclusion
laws though.

Being a fan of Dixieland I will point out a number of tunes which I hope will not need to be renamed to conform to PC requirements: Oriental, Oriental Man, Oriental Strut (made famous by Louis Armstrong), Original Chinese Blues , etc

<hijack>
That reminds me of my highschool days when our old library had several different copies of the same book (the head of the English Department was quite anti-censorship, so the various version were kept in the library for the historical perspective): Ten Little N**rs (sorry, that word really bugs me and I can’t even type it), Ten Little Indians and And Then There Were None.
</hijack>

Tell that to the voter registration people in Georgia – when I registered to vote in metro Atlanta some years back, I left the race section blank. They wouldn’t accept that, so I put in “human”; they didn’t accept that either. I really wanted to vote against Newt Gingrich (my Congressman at the time), so I gave in.

I live in Hawaii, and I’ve never heard using the term “Oriental” as being anywhere near offensive. Here, it’s used interchangeably everyday. I’m Japanese/Asian/Oriental (take your pick, I don’t care), born and raised here. If I were to describe someone as Oriental here, no one would bat an eye. I don’t see what’s so “derogatory” about it.

The only time I’d be offended is if someone added “stupid, fucking” in the front of it. :smiley:

well, yes, there are some forms where the info is requested but not mandatory, but quite a few yet that are mandatory.

I’m required to collect that info on all of my clients, generally for reporting purposes for governmental contracts. MOstly, I’m not allowed to have them mark more than one category (although the new WorkForce Investment Act Forms have ‘hispanic’ as a required yes/no field, and you must also select one other from the list ). I was told to allow the client to self identify, so when one woman said she had hispanic, white, black and North American Indian all in her background, and wouldn’t just select one (as that would, in her eyes set one above the others) selected “North Pacific Islander/Asian” since she had zero of that background.

Is it okay to refer to the East as the “Orient”? Or an oriental design fabric?

A google search for ¡°exclusion act¡¯ turns up nearly 8,000 hits, ¡°Chinese exclusion act¡± over 5,000 and ¡°Oriental exclusion act¡± only 109 hits. The following is from the transcript of the Forty-Seventh Congress. Session I. 1882, which has the header ¡°Chapter 126.-An act to execute certain treaty stipulations relating to Chinese.¡± Do not know if this was popularly referred to as the Chinese exclusion act or later the Oriental exclusion act or if these phrases never made it into the mainstream press. I don’t think Congress ever actually passed an act worded as the Chinese and/or Oriental Exclusion Acts.

I have seen the ¡°Oriental Exclusion Acts¡± cited as a reason for ¡°Oriental¡± being a bad word.

Wow, I’m amazed how many people weren’t aware that “Asian” is the preferred word. I’ve lived in California all my life, and I honestly cannot recall anyone ever seriously using the word “Oriental” to describe an Asian person. I thought that died out in the 60’s. I guess it must be different elsewhere. Here, “Asian” is just what you call them. And I never thought to question why “Oriental” is offensive - the fact that it IS is good enough for me. I figure if a person wants me to call them Asian, it’s no skin off my nose.

My father’s wife is from Taiwan. I asked her if being called an oriental was insulting. She said no, made no difference whether she 's called oriental or asian.

Interesting. I just asked my wife (Japanese) about her image of ‘oriental’.

Her: East Asian.
Me: Japanese too?
Her: No, just China and Southeast Asia.
Me: Japanese aren’t Oriental?
Her: No, we’re like Americans.

Strange. After further discussion, her image of ‘Oriental’ is pretty much the Charlie Chan/Dragon Lady stereotype. However, she also imagines ‘Oriental’ women as being especially beautiful, so she doesn’t find the term insulting.

I’m never really going to understand, am I?

Ya know, there are some women in some circumstances who don’t mind being referred to as ‘babe’. Doesn’t make it the preferred, more formal, less likely to offend term.

In the linked threads, I noted that a 30 day search of news outlets found only a handful of references to the word “Oriental” (and the great majority of those were referring to objects vs. people or were archiac or literary quotes), while the word “Asian” was often found to be used to describe the people, a person etc.

For me, that is sufficient to determine that the ‘preferred, more formal, less likely to offend’ term is “Asian”.

Well, OK, but let’s not forget the real root of this particular language problem, which is racism. If there was no racism, this wouldn’t be a touchy subject. Until we get rid of that, things are going to be more complicated for everyone.

If you don’t like PC language, blame the racists that make every neutral term into a slur, not the people who constantly have to think up new terms to replace the ones that the racists have tainted.

-fh

Well, that’s just silly. My country has the word “America” in its name; Canada and Mexico do not. If they’re only referring to the continent from which they originate, sure, “North Americans” is useful. But why on Earth would someone from Mexico want to call himself “American”? People from the U.S. being referred to themselves as “Americans” is no more wrong than people from the U.S.S.R. being referred to as “Soviets.” “United Statesians” would be both cumbersome and, well, stupid.

I think Russia has a foot in both Europe and Asia. And many Russian citizens are of Mongol, Yakut, Tartar, Caucasian (in the correct sense-another subject altogether), or mixed Steppe origin. Not all Russians look like Vladimir Putin and Anna Kournikova.

>> I don’t think Congress ever actually passed an act worded as the Chinese and/or Oriental Exclusion Acts

Chinese Exclusion Act of May 6, 1882

Woah, that’s a cite a long time in the coming! :slight_smile:

Hey Sailor, thanks. I had googled a lot but never actually found that.