It is the first time I do not agree with You! Your posts elsewhere has been mgnificent, but here I would like to put:
“Nationalism is the belief that your country is the best because you were born in it.”
Patriotism for me is to defend my country, to take care of people there who took care of me and even those who does not know me. To help the beaten. To always try to get the guys in the neighbouring countries to know that my countrymen has the same feelings, problems etc. and thus I work for peace and mutual understanding. (And for my part minimize the treaths from the other countries, with maybe heavy propaganda against mine).
It is to give education to all my countrymen, even if it means heavy taxes.
Plainly, we are here to help the next guy. That is patriotism.
If I live in a small community, I try to work for it.
The community is a part of a country, and I work for it.
My country has neighbouring countries, i try to find solutions that helps me, my country as well as the others.
In the end my patriotism is coming out as me worrying about this globe. Is one part is sick, my country will also get the flu, sooner or later.
Nationalism is egoism. Nationalism leads to facism. The biggest trends of dangerous nationalism and igronance are in Russia and USA. Period.
Just read this thred:
Then shouldn’t your analogy carry over to those who “feel a special duty” to oppose their country? Why then, are such people usually castigated? As you pointed out, it’s not always virtuous to support your family, depending on the circumstances. For example, would it have been virtuous for Ted Kazinsky’s brother to protect him by not turning him in to the police?
I’m with king of spain; in the absence of an absolute, objective definition of patriotism is, we’re forced to define the answer situationally. Including adding such qualifiers as the distinction between patriotism and nationalism; and as to whether the Patria refers to the nation/people as “extended family” or to the political nation-state. Several people in the thread have argued that in the former case, patriotism is virtuous behavior.
However, concluding that patriotism is not “a virtue in and of itself” is not the same thing as concluding patriotism isn’t virtuous at all, period.
Floater, it was a Swedish friend who first questioned me about the patriotism that swept the U.S. after 9-11. I think that he saw it as nationalism. (And, in part, he was correct!)
Sometimes those who describe dissenters as “unpatriotic” are, in themselves, most unpatriotic. Their allegiance is to a flag and to national ego but not to the principles on which the nation was founded.
I remember an experiment that was done in the 1970’s regarding the Bill of Rights. People were asked to sign the Bill of Rights (as an indication of support, I assume). Conservatives, Republicans, Fundamentalist Christians, and hawks were far less likely to sign. I wish that I could find information on that study.
I consider myself very patriotic because I love MOST of the principles this country was founded on. I don’t like many things that the country has become.
.Although I still love America, I don’t say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore. My highest loyalty is to the peoples of the world. And there are other countries I had rather live in.
"I am wondering if perhaps those who dissent from the establishment view are taking a wrong position by accepting the premise that patriotism is, in itself, a virtue. " [emphasis mine].
I don’t think anyone is arguing that supporting one’s country because it does good things isn’t virtuous. But what if your country does bad things? The matter is obviously situational, and I believe the point has already been conceded that patriotism could be a virtue under the correct circumstances.
Virtue is “moral excellence,” what’s morally excellent about loving one’s country? Is there something about countries that make the love of them more moral than love of other things we show loyality to, like sports teams? It can’t just be wishing our people well, since teams have “our” people too, and it can’t be wanting them to win conflicts, either, since that’s what sports is about. If the vitue doesn’t come from those things, what does it come from?
I don’t consider myself at all patriotic. I know I’m lucky to have been born in the US, but I’m more inclined to think of myself as a “New Englander” than a “US Citizen.” Regionalism isn’t a virtue, is it?
I don’t pretend to believe that I think there’s virtue to not give a lot of thought to the parts of the country I’ve never even seen, but I fail to see how it would make me morally superior (to what I am now, not to you, necessarily) if I stuck flags on my car and sang God Bless America a few times a day.