Is PC gaming on the way out?

[amanset]

I’m actually a born again PC gamer. I stopped playing EverQuest around 2002 and that was it for me with PC games until about 1.5 years ago. What made me switch was Fallout New Vegas on the 360, an absolutely bug ridden piece of shit that should never have been released. After seeing the bug fixing that could be released quicker (via Steam without the need for MS or Sony to OK it) or via the community I decided to jump ship.

However … console gaming still has the exclusives, especially Nintendo. There’s not so much on the 360 or PS3 that is exclusive that interests me (just the latter Halo games really) but Nintendo … well. I love 'em and I’ll get a Wii U on release (if I can find one).

[Jophiel]

@amanset

Yet consistently I see games being more expensive as digital downloads on release, which is just insane. I ended up buying Skyrim at a bricks and mortar store because it was 100 SEK cheaper than Steam. I just checked and Borderlands 2 is 399 SEK in that same store and yet 49.99 Euro (approx 430 SEK) on Steam.

I’m out of my depth to discuss international market pricing but I will say that Steam is a pretty bad place to get new digital releases. Green Man Gaming, Gamers Gate, Amazon (though you can’t buy from them overseas without some tricks) all have much better pre-order and new release deals. Steam is great for its sales on stuff that’s been out for a year or more. For new stuff, their idea of a deal is to include a couple TF2 hats while the other places are taking 25% off.

[Kinthalis]

@Carnacki

It just occurred to me how boring a thread would be without “overblown rhetoric”, whatever that is.
“PCs and consoles have advantages and disadvantages!”
“Consoles are cheaper!”
“PCs offer more!”
“Okay!”

[Kinthalis]

@amanset

Yet consistently I see games being more expensive as digital downloads on release, which is just insane. I ended up buying Skyrim at a bricks and mortar store because it was 100 SEK cheaper than Steam. I just checked and Borderlands 2 is 399 SEK in that same store and yet 49.99 Euro (approx 430 SEK) on Steam.

There’s no excuse for that.

I seem to remember that the WoW expansion is ridiculously more expensive as a digital download too.

Yes, this is an issue in some countries still. you might want to look at your locla Amazon, or green man gaming or Gamers gate for better prices. But yeah, Steam has to jump on this already.

@drewtwo99

I just wanted to mention that I played some pc games tonight on my couch, in my living room, on my tv, with a controller. It was nice.

Heretic!

@amanset

I’m actually a born again PC gamer. I stopped playing EverQuest around 2002 and that was it for me with PC games until about 1.5 years ago. What made me switch was Fallout New Vegas on the 360, an absolutely bug ridden piece of shit that should never have been released. After seeing the bug fixing that could be released quicker (via Steam without the need for MS or Sony to OK it) or via the community I decided to jump ship.

However … console gaming still has the exclusives, especially Nintendo. There’s not so much on the 360 or PS3 that is exclusive that interests me (just the latter Halo games really) but Nintendo … well. I love 'em and I’ll get a Wii U on release (if I can find one).

Have you tried emulation? I own a Wii. I still occasionally buy some nintendo exclusives (mostly Zelda). I then emulate the games on my PC, because man, Wii games in HD look cool.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Kinthalis

Have you tried emulation? I own a Wii. I still occasionally buy some nintendo exclusives (mostly Zelda). I then emulate the games on my PC, because man, Wii games in HD look cool.

Wait…what? How does one go about doing that?

[Kinthalis]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Wait…what? How does one go about doing that?

I’m not 100% it’s legal in all areas, even if you own the discs. Morally, F-that. But I won’t discuss it on the forum for that reason.

However, Kotaku did an article for it if you’re interested. Google “kotaku Wii HD pc” and the article is the first result.

[Gukumatz]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Wait…what? How does one go about doing that?

Look up the Dolphin Wii emulator.

(Discussion of it is fine, but I’d prefer it if we kept detailed instructions on the how-to aspect off this board. While the emulator itself is open source and legal, some aspects of emulation are legal grey zones, like establishing legal ownership of the ROMs you run on them.)
ETA: Just a general reminder for this thread. We’re still in the Game Room. Keep it light, guys. Console vs PC threads tend to get heated, after all.

                                                   ,;;;rrrrr:::....                                         
                                               rG@HBHhhXirrsrrSX5S3A9&3Si,                                  
                                            .3@@5;::::                .:iH#G;:                              
                                          :M@H;.,:::;                      ;ihBBX.                          
                                         @@X,.,:::::;                          .S@M                         
                                       r@A..:,:::sssSSir;;:,,,,,:;                G@.                       
                                     .@@r ,:i5isrrrrsi;;rr;:,::,,,:r               r@                       
                                    .@A .;r:::;;;;;;:;,....,:::::,,..               GB                      
                                    &M ,::SSsssrs;:;;:,..,:,,.  . ...                @.                     
                                    @;,:;r:::,,:::;;             .  ..               2G                     
                                    @:::;;:;rrs.:;;    r    .:;: :;:::;:             ;A                     
                                   .@.:;XAB&2i;sXsir   BGH#MAAHAB@#@@@S              rX                     
                                   ;@..G@X@@@@@@MXriA   ;2@@&@@@X:   .:              rB                     
                                   2&;XSr@A   .;r,5,52  , @@r    ,i;;                 @                     
                                   59,rs##G,:ri;rr2.9r ;A.@@G.,::;sXAs2.              @:                    
                                   53:; 52rr;i2s,r,52   ; X2s25si:.;                  ;@                    
                                   Sh.X; ,r:,::2,:5:      .ii2i;,.    S          ,     @                    
                                   SG.,X2;,,,;9r.X.        ,i,,.     ss          9     @.                   
                                   iG.,,rS5i5S:.;S      ,r. .3i;   . :          i;,    M.                   
                                   GX,::,,:;;;;i3.Ah. ,G3,#   ,s2s;;          ,A; ,,   Ms                   
                                   @r,::Sr;;:,:  ,XA&.;&:,.::.,. ,,:;.        Xr..,,   s2                   
                                   M;::ii    s;.rssr22;&hhXS;. 2r   .5s      X;, .,,   i5                   
                                   #r:,S.  r@A3@Mi;&SsXriGXX#Ahh@r    9     iS, .,,    2X                   
  rhGrX@#isss;:r2G&AABS            #;::ir  B       ,;::,:        r ,  s     2s .,.     @:                   
 @Mr5@Hr#M#@@@A@@@@2iA@3S@X        #  ;ii.S.r            ,:     ,rBH  s     :S         @                    
 @i  #,  ,..:     .     rs@@,      #; .X; s5S  ,: .,:;::         sS   2               @r                    
  @r  @;                   s@#     ;#  2:  ;     .A,,. sr         ;   S              :@                     
   GGrA@#2;,.,    :,.;;      3@     @  r;  2     .s..   i;        2  ,S              @.                     
      B. i@irr25@@@2BGr       i@    @  .5  ,.      :X r  ;           .,             5A                      
      #: ,3: ;MX@Ssr.          s@;  As  .          :;.s                            ,@                       
      &@ MX SA;:r          .    .@; ;@      .     ,2 i                            i@.                       
       ;siG&@@5.r  #,    32:     ,@  @s    ,,.    5 ,r                ;.        r@A                         
            M@r2@s;S&,rB@G        #   @#   2.,,   r  .               ;S       :@@.                          
             s#;,;;r92s:          #    X@X. s, ,.                   ;;     ,S##:                            
               22S5:             .@      iB&9M2,                  .s:,rSS&BAs                               
                  .@r            iH         ,rB@G9Xsr;:,,.    ..r9@&&2r:,.                                  
                   ,@            SS              ,rr29h39hhh9A2SXr.                                         
                    @ .          i5                                                                         
                   ,# .          #2                                                                         
                   9#            92                                                                         
                   rs            53                                                                         
                                                                                            

[Kinthalis]

If Nintendo opened up a PC digital store front, they would be rolling in money, with probably only a small impact on their console sales (Japan is their biggest market, and they just don’t do PC gaming there - Europe might switch, but so what? It’ll just bring in more money!).

Of course, they are already rolling in money so…

[amanset]

@Kinthalis

Have you tried emulation? I own a Wii. I still occasionally buy some nintendo exclusives (mostly Zelda). I then emulate the games on my PC, because man, Wii games in HD look cool.

I have tried Dolphin and to be honest it isn’t quite as perfect as you’d want it to be. Music emulation, for a start, can often be wonky.

And that’s ignoring how long it takes for a decent emulator to come out. The Gamecube came out eleven years ago, yet the sound in the emulation of Metroid Prime still screws up.

[Justin_Bailey]

@Kinthalis

If Nintendo opened up a PC digital store front, they would be rolling in money, with probably only a small impact on their console sales (Japan is their biggest market, and they just don’t do PC gaming there - Europe might switch, but so what? It’ll just bring in more money!).

North America is Nintendo’s biggest market by far.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1206.pdf

[Doubticus]

@Nava

Your postural problems are your own - my computer works just fine connected to the big HD TV in the living room (advantages of sharing a flat with a guy who broke up with his live-in-SO recently: #1, his TV is huge; #2 he’s never at home), with the keyboard and mouse on a Proper Table.

Given the choice between watching a movie at the computer desk verses watching one on the couch, I would guess most would choose the couch. That’s not a postural problem, that is simply ergonomics, a point you attest to by configuring you PC for your HDTV.

[Kinthalis]

There is a difference in terms of the gaming experience.

I personally feel disconnected from the game standing several feet from the screen and interacting with a gamepad on my couch.

It’s fine for racing games and party games, but nothing beats the immersivenes of having the screen right in your face, and the response and tightness of M&K, or heck, even game pad + 60 FPS.

It helps to have a comfy desk chair though.

[amanset]

@Kinthalis

There is a difference in terms of the gaming experience.

I personally feel disconnected from the game standing several feet from the screen and interacting with a gamepad on my couch.

It’s fine for racing games and party games, but nothing beats the immersivenes of having the screen right in your face, and the response and tightness of M&K, or heck, even game pad + 60 FPS.

It helps to have a comfy desk chair though.

I think what kept me away from PC games for some time is that I spend eight hours a day (minimum) at work at a desk in front of a PC. Not only did I not want to do that when I came home but it also felt a bit too much like work.

[Shooby]

I’m pretty much exclusively a PC gamer nowadays (random trips to play friends’ consoles notwithstanding), but it’s clear that both sides have their advantages.

Consoles are still easier to set up and use, in some cases. For starters, you do have to do some homework just buying the right PC for gaming, whereas you can tell granny to go to the store to buy a Wii, no problem.

And no matter how much we may disregard them, we PC users will face our share of issues getting things to work. Gothic 2, for instance, was unplayable on my machine for several years until nVidia finally released a patch for their video card drivers. On the console side, you can always stick a PS2 game into a PS3 and it’ll just work, no questions asked. That said, most of the time on PCs, you download, hit install, and play. But the edge cases do exist.

Consoles are still far better for local multiplayer. Sports games, fighting games, co-op games - they are all much, much easier to set up on consoles, and much more prevalent. Games like New Super Mario Bros. Wii really show you how awesome the one box + TV + 4 controllers set-up can be. Consoles just lend themselves to being more social.
In all other cases, PCs do seem to have the advantage. Even the cost issue is one I would give to PCs. People need a PC for work/personal stuff anyway, and buying one with a decent video card isn’t really that much of a cost difference. Plus, the prevalence of digital distribution has caused game prices to plummet, especially when they’ve been sitting on the shelves for a while. I just got Batman Arkham Asylum (a fairly recent AAA highly-rated game) Game of the Year edition for less than $10 earlier this year. What I used to spend on 2 console games now has lasted me about 3 years worth of buying PC games (25+), half of which I haven’t even played.

[Kinthalis]

But most of the “Advantages” of console gaming have little to do with, you know, gaming.

It’s a cheaper start up cost (depending on your point of view), and it’s a more plug and play experience.

What does that have to do with GAMING?

The pluses of the PC have mostly to do with the actual gaming experience. Better graphics, AI, physics = more immersive experience. Better performance = tighter, more responsive controls. More varied input devices = more way to play and enjoy games. Hardware options = an experience to match your wants and budget (three monitor gaming, 3D gaming, budget gaming,etc). A ton of user created content = games that have much longer lives, and can be tailored by you, as well as completely changed by the community (Check out Just cause 2 multi-player for example!).

Also I’ll take a small LAN with laptops/LAN boxes over sharing an already low rez 720p game screen with other people.

[control-z]

If you are going to have a home PC anyway the extra cost of getting some extra RAM and a fast video card can be equal to or less than the cost of a console.

Consoles do have an advantage for local multiplayer. The game companies started moving away from split-screen gaming about the time the PS3 came out, but its better now. And games like Rock Band are lots of fun with a group of people.

I generally buy social and beat-em-up games for console and FPS, RPG, and strategy games for PC. Console games almost always just work, but I play infrequently enough that it always seems I have to download updates before I can play. And unlike a PC, the console is useless while downloading updates.

[Jophiel]

@Shooby

On the console side, you can always stick a PS2 game into a PS3 and it’ll just work, no questions asked.

Real bad example between only some PS3s having PS2 compatibility, some having partial and others having none. And those that do don’t do it perfectly.

I’d probably have an easier time trying to get my games from 2000 to run on my PC than you’ll ever have getting your PS2 games from 2000 to run on many PS3’s.

[Johnny_Bravo]

@Shooby

On the console side, you can always stick a PS2 game into a PS3 and it’ll just work, no questions asked.

One of the PS2’s biggest selling points was that it was completely backwards compatible, giving the system a huge library of games from the outset.

The earliest models of the PS3 were also backwards compatible, but Sony quickly started phasing that out and within a few iterations of the system it was gone completely. Now the only way to play old games on a PS3 (short of any kind of homebrewing) is to purchase them digitally from the PSN.

[Shooby]

@Johnny_Bravo

One of the PS2’s biggest selling points was that it was completely backwards compatible, giving the system a huge library of games from the outset.

The earliest models of the PS3 were also backwards compatible, but Sony quickly started phasing that out and within a few iterations of the system it was gone completely. Now the only way to play old games on a PS3 (short of any kind of homebrewing) is to purchase them digitally from the PSN.

Sigh, of course my one example would be wrong. I’ve really only played on my friend’s PS3 (it must be one of the early ones), and it seems to play every PS2 game we throw at it flawlessly.

[Airk]

@Kinthalis

But most of the “Advantages” of console gaming have little to do with, you know, gaming.

It’s a cheaper start up cost (depending on your point of view), and it’s a more plug and play experience.

What does that have to do with GAMING?

Oh come on. If your refrigerator just spontaneously explodes occasionally, what does that have to do with keeping food cold? If you can’t figure out how to start your car without getting towed to the mechanic, what does that have to do with driving to the grocery store?

The pluses of the PC have mostly to do with the actual gaming experience. Better graphics, AI, physics = more immersive experience.

Not necessarily, no. Therein lies a large part of the PC argument. Sometimes it does, for some people. If everything had better graphics, my JRPG experiences would be no more immersive than they are now. Many games I play don’t even really HAVE “physics” and most of the good ones have what I want from the AI already. Plus I think you’re going to have a really hard time demonstrating that game AI is held back by hardware and not by design. In fact, I’m going to call BS on that assertion.

Better performance = tighter, more responsive controls.

No, not necessarily. Yes, you can make a game that has sluggish controls because you’ve overreached the capabilities of your hardware, but you can also make a game with perfectly responsive controls for any hardware by NOT doing that. And you can make games with crappy controls without overreaching your hardware.

More varied input devices = more way to play and enjoy games. Hardware options = an experience to match your wants and budget (three monitor gaming, 3D gaming, budget gaming,etc). A ton of user created content = games that have much longer lives, and can be tailored by you, as well as completely changed by the community (Check out Just cause 2 multi-player for example!).

Most people don’t even finish the games they buy, so what do they care about extra content? Glad you like it, that’s why you play a PC, but don’t generalize and expect the world to want the same things you do.

Also I’ll take a small LAN with laptops/LAN boxes over sharing an already low rez 720p game screen with other people.

Depends on the game, frankly. There’s no appeal for me in playing something like Castle Crashers or Street Fighter WITHOUT sharing a screen. This is something that’s strictly psychological. Also, spectating is generally a lot easier with one large screen than with 2 small ones.