Evolution is not controversial at all with scientists.
And yes ALL creationism is unscientific. There is no scientific theory of creationism.
(You don’t actually think that “creation science” is science do you?"
I get your point – anything science says is unscientific is unscientific because science has replaced God. Scientists are the high priests of this generation. Well if it works for you, fine.
I will continue on the path to truth, I don’t buy into science or religion, both are closed-minded systems, and will only learn what the high priests dictate.
I prefer to remain a free thinker, interested in proof. This is no proof in evolution or the bible creation story. But there is proof in the spirituality of man.
Love
Leroy
You are lying.
Proof has been offered on multiple occasions. You simply ignore the evidence and proceed with your repeated lie.
“Free thinker”? Not until you provide evidence of thought. “Random believer” would better charcterize your posts on this thread, in which you have posted errors instead of fact and beliefs instead of evidence throughout.
Well said, (as usual), tomndebb.
“credophile” is another term that has been applied to the L-man
This is BS.
I wrote to the National Archives and Records Administration in College Park MD in regards to the muster rolls from the USS Kenneth M. Willett (DE-354)
Jan 1, 1955 to Dec 31 1956 RL-1110
Jan. 1, 1957 to Dec. 31, 1958 RL-1481
THERE WAS NO LEROY KATTEIN LISTED!:smack:
Just like the New Orleans snowfall in July, and the NDE you had while you were sleeping, your USN adventure must’ve only happened in you personal experience.
Lekatt,
You were born in 1937. When WWII ended you were seven about to turn eight.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by lekatt *
Of course Atheism is evangelical. Why would they be forcing their beliefs in our schools and pledges. Looks like you got it backwards.
Forcing their beliefs? Are we trying to add “One Nation, Under NO God…” in the pledge or “In No God we Trust” on our money? Do we want to tell school children to bow their heads and acknowledge their disbelief in God?
Which statements did he make that are true, which are not? Give examples.
I have placed your entire post in this post. The reason I am breaking it up is so I can address every separate point you have made on an individual basis.
First you complain about people addressing your arguments point by point instead of in one big lump, now you are complaining about them “skimming” over your post. Please make up your mind.
I am not doing this to misrepresent what you are saying, and if you want to point out any examples of people misrepresenting what you are saying, I welcome you to do so.
I’m not “attacking” your beliefs any more than I attack people who believe in Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy. I simply think they should grow up and look at the evidence instead of relying on wishful thinking.
** An Open Letter to Lekkat**
Allow me to apologise Leroy, for the wolf pack mentality of some of the posters of this thread. They smelled blood when you said that 800,000 americans died in World War II. You, I think were wrong. But then, five of the most bloodthiristy surounded you and called you a liar and began parsing your words like a battery of lawyers with their fees in contingecy.
But worse. You see, when you refered to a causative God and a disbelief in our current understanding of evolution you attacked the very foundation of their understanding of life. Without evolution and athesim they have nowhere to stand.
But worse, worse, one of the gentlemen decided to investigate you personally, normally a no-no, to determine the truth of your remarks. He said you said…
This is my understanding of the war. When I was in the Navy, I was on the USS Willett, there was a memorial on the ship with pictures and the names of the sailors who died when the ship was hit by a Japanese suicide bomber. I visited it often.
Then he said…
This is BS.
I wrote to the National Archives and Records Administration in College Park MD in regards to the muster rolls from the USS Kenneth M. Willett (DE-354)
Jan 1, 1955 to Dec 31 1956 RL-1110
Jan. 1, 1957 to Dec. 31, 1958 RL-1481
THERE WAS NO LEROY KATTEIN LISTED
I sorry SimonX thought it necessary to pry, but I note that you did not say that you served on the “Willett” only that you visisted the memorial often. What say you, Leroy?
Your friend,
Milum.
Evolution is a fact.
Atheism or theism is neither here nor there. Evolution proves neither. Most people believe in God, and also accept evolution.
The “foundation” of evolution has not only not been “attacked” by lekatt, it hasn’t even been seen by him, despite repeated attempts to point it out, take his hand and lead him to it, and to jump up and down on it yelling “Yo, Lekatt, over here.”
Simply saying “evolution is false,” without addressing even a shred of factual evidence is hardly going to strike fear into the heart of a scientist or an atheist.
Milum,
If you like, we can discuss all of this on its merits in The Pit.
However, here are some cites as to Lekatt’s assertions.
These became relevant in relation to L’s assertions as to the value that should be assigned to “personal experience.”
There’re more references to L available through Google and in The Pit.
Please show up Lekatt, as a former Navy OS I had lots of unintentional fun reading your post in the linked threads. :rolleyes:
This is an interesting piece of drivel, given that I am a devout Christian (which both you and lekatt purport to not be), while your whole series of sniping attacks on other posters, in which you have produced exactly one substantive post on the issues, is simply based on an ad hominem claim that the people who oppose lekatt’s dishonesty do so for fear that our “atheistic” world view might be challenged.
In fact, the reverse is true. I have attacked lekatt’s dishonesty for the reason given above: he continually makes false assertions regarding every issue on which he holds some belief and then simply repeats those falsehoods in subsequent posts after evidence against his claims has been provided.
I do not need to have artificial appeals to an undefined god placed into public ritual in order to support my faith. On the other hand, since I know a number of people who are excellent citizens who believe either that there is no god or that there are multiple gods, I prefer to not be associated with an attempt to have beliefs that hazily resemble mine imposed on those citizens.
Vague appeals to generic divinity are worthless. As someone who believes I have a direct, personal relationship with God, I find such generic pap to fail to express my faith, while they undermine the pluralism on which this nation was founded.
Similarly, regarding evolution: if actual science discovered some different agent to explain speciation, I would be very surprised, but my world view would not be shaken (given that I already believe that God is the ultimate creator). However, until such time as that occurs, the only legitimate explanation of the origin of species that has withstood over 140 years of analysis and challenge is the theory put forth by Charles Darwin in 1859 and modified with new information since that time. No one need “believe” in evolutionary theory to make me happy. However, I seriously object to attempts to mis-educate my children with the lies put forth by lekatt that there is any reason, at this time, to doubt that the evolutionary theory is the best explanation of the observable facts of nature.
Hi Milum
SimonX visited my site and saw the page of background material there. Since it didn’t contain any mention on my Navy enlistment, he concluded that I was lying. The story I told of the hurricane was true, it was used to illustrate a point. He proceded in his personal attacks throughout the thread and through every thread I have posted in since. Even a moderator or two joined in. I was in the Navy and the Willett was a training ship I was on for different periods of time. My personal life has nothing to do with this board except for the usual personal attacks the skeptics give to spiritual posters. They have no proof of anything they attack, and no proof that evolution is real. Let me repeat that, there has been no proof of evolution given on this board.
Now I could show my discharge papers and I might even have a old copy of my orders to the Willett, but so what, SimonX and the skeptics would only distort and attack that also.
I am only writing this for Milum.
I got started on this board when I came here and saw the slanderous statements on everything spiritual, since I have shown they lack proof of their statements in all areas.
Love
Leroy
Love debate this with you in the Pit Lekkat- seeing you are calling SimonX a liar- care to back it up in the Pit. You got some very basic facts wrong about radar and how a CIC actually work. It is not fair to derail this thread with your claims. See you there.
You’ve missed quite a bit on this board, then, lekatt, if you think it’s nothing but "slanderous statements on everything spiritual. In point of fact, I’ve seen some very stirring and inspirational discussion of spirtuality and religion (which are two different things) by the likes of Polycarp, Libertarian, and others. These are respected and liked members of this board, and their contributions are unfailingly welcomed and encouraged. This is mostly due to the fact that they literally practice what they preach, and their posts are (for the most part) characterized by reason, tolerance, and consideration. They even move an old atheist like me.
Which is the complete antithesis of your posts, lekatt, in this thread and in others. You say that your detractors “lack proof of their statements in all areas.” Once again, you are reading selectively, as proof has been offered over and over, which you consistently ignore. Where, pray, is the proof of your assertions? I have yet to see anything convincing from you.
The difference between you and other spiritual posters here, lekatt, is simple. Posters like Polycarp have dedicated themselves to fighting ignorance where they see it. You, on the other hand, are the ignorance they are fighting.
You have managed, however, to make this debate about you rather than about the issue at hand… which I suspect may have been your intention all along.
The initial style of bell-bottoms has returned, only fashion designers prefer to call them “flare leg.”
My point is, the Pledge of Allegiance has returned as well.
Patriotism became a fad, everyone got caught up in the moment, and now everyday “we,” as a country stand for the pledge.
Of this I take no part.
I refuse to stand for the Pledge, because I don’t agree with that which our country does at times. Because of my beliefs, I am often victim of dirty looks and crude comments. This is America, correct? It has been my understanding for the past 18 years that America is “land of the free, home of the brave,” and that under the First Amendment we are guaranteed the “freedom” of speech. Therefore, am I not entitled to an opinion? When did America stop being a free country? Why do we judge others based on opinions?
Why? Because we are not free. We just think we are. And that is the most terrible thing of all.
Oh, good grief.
MarlaDurden, clearly your past 18 years has been undimmed by any hint of a civics class.
If it had been, you would have learned that the First Amendment constrains the government in what it may prohibit. It does not prevent your fellow citizens from expressing their opinions of you, judging you on your opinions, looking down on you because of your opinions, ostracizing you because of your opinions, making fun of you because of your opinions, and refusing to even speak to you because of your opinions.
In short, the First Amendment has precious little to do with preventing dirty looks and crude comments from others. Frankly, given your lack of understanding of the scope of the First Amendment’s protection, it’s entirely possible that if I were to see you, I’d shoot you a dirty look myself.
- Rick