Y’know, if you all think the California recall process is stupid, you could, oh, I don’t know…change the law? Naw, let’s just bitch about Republicans.
I imagine most states have a recall process. However, governors rarely become as unpopular as Gray Davis has made himself. Therefore, the cranks and partisan hacks who start the recall processes rarely suceed in even getting the recall on the ballot.
If you think the recall process is stupid, what makes more sense?
Starting another stupid recall.
Changing the law to make the recall process less stupid.
Your answer to the above question indicates whether you are a partisan hack and a crank, or a public spirited citizen.
So you’re in Florida? What were you doing reading the strip? Huh? Huh? It specifically said for all non-Californians to go read another comic.
lostronin
It’s Gray, not Grey, and the next general election will be irrelevant to whether he keeps his job or not.
DMark
What’s this “unless Davis wins” stuff? What could illustrate the absurdity more than repeatedly trying to recall the same governor?
E72521
Such a law would be in violation of the First Amendment. It’s not that he isn’t allowed to collect signatures, but that any signatures he collects now won’t count.
Yes, Issa bankrolled this recall, but it doesn’t follow that it would not have succeeded w/o his money. All we can say is that his money was a sufficient condition for the recall, but we don’t know if it was a necessary condition.
As for the national GOP involvement, I actually believe Bush would have a better chance in CA if a hated Dem were in power than a Pub who won’t be able to get cracking on the mess we’re in by the time of the next presidential election.
We’ve seen Clinton out here campaigning for Davis and against the recall, but no national GOP figure has shown his or her face in the state to say “vote yes on the recall and vote for Arnold.” It’s been stated GOP folks all the way.
Exactly. If Bush and Karl Rove are salivating over the recall opportunity, then why aren’t they out stumping for Arnold? It isn’t exactly unknown for presidents to campaign for candidates for governor, senator, or representative. If Bush is behind this, why isn’t he, well, behind it?
No, the recall is state issue. The California republicans are for it, but the national party hasn’t exactly been falling over itself to support the recall. A weak, ineffective Republican governor is bad for the national party. A weak, ineffective, and loathed Democratic governor is great for the national party.
The recall effort was helped by the fact that so few people were inspired by either Davis or Simon to actually vote last year, bringing the necessary 12% down to a manageable number.
However, polling numbers are not usually very high anyway, and, as has been pointed out, nearly every governor has been the subject of a recall effort which never got past the signature collecting stage. So either what has never worked in the past suddenly worked here more or less inexplicably, or some new factor tilted the balance.
One factor of course could be Davis’ staggering incompetence, but, although I’m a relative newcomer to this state, I doubt he’s the first widely despised person to hold that office.
Signature collecting efforts are usually the work of dedicated volunteers, and have so far been unsuccessful. This time around, however, you had a moneyed interest paying signature collectors. Paid workers are, shall we say, a touch more motivated.
So I maintain that Issa’s money is the prime factor that tipped the balance. I don’t think enough signatures could have been gathered without it.
As much as I distrust those two, I don’t think they were behind the recall effort either.
I place the blame for this farce solely at the doorstop of Darrel Issa, who figured from day one that recalling Davis was an easier way to get into the Governor’s office than actually running against Simon, Riordan, et al. If it wasn’t for Schwarzenegger’s entry into the race, Darrel would be up there chasing the ring with the rest of 'em.
You might want to research this a bit. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but IIRC, only a fraction of the signature collectors were paid. Most were volunteers.
Davis had the highest negative ratings of any recent governor, by quite a bit. I think it’s hard to distinguish between that and the effect the money had.
But I’d propose this: If the recall passes on Tuesday, I don’t think it will be correct to say that Issa’s money was the deciding factor. Of course we’ll never really know, but I’d say that a “No” vote next week undercuts your thesis.
If Issa is responsible for it as you say, and there is no popular backing for it, then it will be resoundingly defeated.
Last I heard 30% of Democrats were in support of the recall. I don’t think they’re part of the vast right wing conspiracy.
If the recall lacks popular support, then it will be resoundingly defeated. Many people, even Republicans, and especially independents are inclined to keep the incumbent even if they don’t like him. For Davis to lose, by definition, it must be a grass roots effort.
My point is, if you take only the people who are collecting signatures out of sheer dedication to the cause, you’re going to get fewer signature collectors than if you pay some.
The 12% willing to sign were obviously out there (I don’t hear anyone legitimately claiming that the signatures were somehow falsified), but the question is, would they have been found without the money paying for extra collectors and various fees for professional advice on how to ferret out every last voter willing to put their name down as wanting him out. Not saying they shouldn’t get the opportunity to, but I don’t think a bunch of ordinary, angry people could have done such an efficient job, even with Davis’ disapproval ratings.
If Tuesday’s vote is no, then the whole mess really was a completely unecessary waste of resources we can ill afford, because the majority is content to let Davis stay in office, which is exactly what they said last November.
Issa’s money decided whether or not the state would spend tons of money it can’t afford, on an election it doesn’t need, solely to manifest some rich conservative’s masturbatory fantasies.
I blame Bush for refunding so much of Isshole’s money, he didn’t know what else to do with it.
Trudeau was not “solicting signatures”- again, let me introduce you to the concept of a “joke” or “irony”. Often found in “comic strips”.
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OK, fine. Maybe the Floridian in me got the better of me. It seemed sincere enough at the time. Alas, I’ve made a fool of myself. Thanks for letting down so easy.
DMark
Maybe in the early days, but Schwarzenneger is as much a Republican as Clark is a Democrat. Arnold spoiled the party much as General Clark is doing now. I dont see President Bush* touching Schwarzenegger with a ten foot pole.
QTM
Yes, I was. It’s still my opinion that there enough pissed off Dems in the Golden State that a recall attempt of Schwarzenegger is a given. But give Ashcroft the benefit of the doubt.
Possibly. But don’t blame Issa. Blame the dunce who crafted the recall amendment and made the bar relatively low for a recall to happen. Personally, I think we should get rid of the recall option (retaining impeachment). But it’s there and what Issa did was perfectly legal.
Of course, those who wish to follow Issa’s example might want to take note that he spent about $2M of his own money only to be pushed aside by someone whose net worth is probably 100x more than his own. What a chump!!
“If Tuesday’s vote is no, then the whole mess really was a completely unecessary waste of resources we can ill afford, because the majority is content to let Davis stay in office, which is exactly what they said last November.”
So should I vote “yes” on the recall, so that the effort won’t be in vain?
Didn’t say it wasn’t legal. But I think his contribuitions were what pushed the recall through to ballot. In general, I think government has proved itself to be of sufficient corruptibility that a recall law is overall a good thing, and the bar should not be too high.
Of course, the whole reason Issa could see a recall within his monetary reach was Davis and Simon’s ability to galvanize the voters and send them storming the polls last November…:rolleyes:
But the majority of the voters who bothered to show up said (along with, effectively, those who didn’t show up) that his being boring and stupid is no reason to replace a governor with some clod who has even worse ideas. I will be surprised if Tuesday’s vote says anything different.
If I am right, then this whole political hiccup would turn out to be a complete waste of time and money, courtesy of Mr. Issa’s wet dreams and fat wallet.
Dadgummit, you guys have made me agree with Shodan!
It’s not like Davis is a bad governor. He’s a staggeringly bad governor. I’m a democrat and I can’t wait to get a chance to kick his butt out of office. Why not let him finish out his term? Because by the end of the term we could on the verge of bankruptcy.
Yeah, Issa funded a large portion of the intitial recall effort. So what? Shodan’s right. If the public perception of Davis wasn’t so bad, he couldn’t have got the signatures. And if the Dem’s start a recall effort right out of the gate, they will indeed look like morons and petty losers.
Don’t blame Issa, blame Davis. If it wasn’t for Davis’ bumbling and poor decision making, Issa would have been banging his head against a wall trying to recall an effective governor, dem or rep. Maybe Issa was having “masturbatory fantasies”, but Davis has been realizing his fantasies for the last few years at a great cost to this state.
Should recalls be limited to office holders that commit criminal acts? I say yes.
No. Voters should have the right to kick out an office holder that is doing a bad job. Davis certainly meets that criteria.
As far as recalling Arnold, yes, it’s going too far. Why? Because they’re trying to recall him before he’s even been elected, much less had a chance to DO anything. Give the poor shmuck a chance. If he sucks, THEN recall him.
