Is Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead basically Hamlet fanfiction?

[Exapno_Mapcase]

One phrase I hate more than almost any other is “transcends the genre,” which is used 100% of the time as code for “this is good, so it’s not really genre.”

And R&G is good, at least the movie version. I’ve seen a number of Stoppard’s plays but not this one.

But I agree with Chuck that R&G is not fanfiction. Basing it on other characters does not make it fanfiction. You need to have some definition that is tighter than that.

Why it’s not fanfiction is harder to pin down. Sherlock Holmes is the ultimate fanfiction character. There have been hundreds of books and thousands of stories, pastiches as well as parodies, using the Holmes character. Almost anything you could say about what fanfiction isn’t is belied by some of them. Fanfiction is amateur. Obviously not. Fanfiction uses the original world. Not true in hundreds of cases. Fanfiction admires the characters. Not always. Fanfiction isn’t a commentary on the author. Parody often is, and some books like The Seven Per Cent Solution can be read that way.

So what makes R&G different? The closest I can come is that Stoppard uses Shakespeare’s characters as a device for a commentary that has little to do with Shakespeare himself or his world. Stoppard is using them to comment on the process of telling lies as entertainment, which we call story or drama. *Hamlet *itself, while in the background, is just a fictional prop around which the actual play revolves.

You might compare it to the play that is being given in Noises Off, the farce by Michael Frayn. That also became a popular film, though you really have to see it as a play to get the full force of the breathless, split-second timing that it demands. It’s the single funniest play I’ve ever seen.

Frayn is a British novelist and playwright who is a contemporary of Stoppard’s. He also plays with many of the same themes of uncertainty and the slipperiness of meaning. The play that’s being performed in Noises Off doesn’t exist in the real world. It’s a tentpole for the actors to caper around.

I’d argue that the two plays function in the same way even though one is real and the other isn’t. And that’s what makes R&G not fanfiction. It doesn’t depend on *Hamlet *as an original entity.

Sorry to get pedantic on you, but that’s what happens when you start playing with rigorous definitions. If you don’t get formal, anything goes.

[SciFiSam]

@Exapno_Mapcase

One phrase I hate more than almost any other is “transcends the genre,” which is used 100% of the time as code for “this is good, so it’s not really genre.”

And R&G is good, at least the movie version. I’ve seen a number of Stoppard’s plays but not this one.

But I agree with Chuck that R&G is not fanfiction. Basing it on other characters does not make it fanfiction. You need to have some definition that is tighter than that.

Why it’s not fanfiction is harder to pin down. Sherlock Holmes is the ultimate fanfiction character. There have been hundreds of books and thousands of stories, pastiches as well as parodies, using the Holmes character. Almost anything you could say about what fanfiction isn’t is belied by some of them. Fanfiction is amateur. Obviously not. Fanfiction uses the original world. Not true in hundreds of cases. Fanfiction admires the characters. Not always. Fanfiction isn’t a commentary on the author. Parody often is, and some books like The Seven Per Cent Solution can be read that way.

So what makes R&G different? The closest I can come is that Stoppard uses Shakespeare’s characters as a device for a commentary that has little to do with Shakespeare himself or his world. Stoppard is using them to comment on the process of telling lies as entertainment, which we call story or drama. *Hamlet *itself, while in the background, is just a fictional prop around which the actual play revolves.

You might compare it to the play that is being given in Noises Off, the farce by Michael Frayn. That also became a popular film, though you really have to see it as a play to get the full force of the breathless, split-second timing that it demands. It’s the single funniest play I’ve ever seen.

Frayn is a British novelist and playwright who is a contemporary of Stoppard’s. He also plays with many of the same themes of uncertainty and the slipperiness of meaning. The play that’s being performed in Noises Off doesn’t exist in the real world. It’s a tentpole for the actors to caper around.

I’d argue that the two plays function in the same way even though one is real and the other isn’t. And that’s what makes R&G not fanfiction. It doesn’t depend on *Hamlet *as an original entity.

Sorry to get pedantic on you, but that’s what happens when you start playing with rigorous definitions. If you don’t get formal, anything goes.

In that case, some fanfiction is not fanfiction, since I’ve seen quite a few that use the characters as a commentary on something that isn’t directly related to the play. I’ll see if I can dig out some examples later. Hell, even the porn without plot fanfictions don’t depend on the source as an original entity - you could easily switch the character names for characters from a different series and it wouldn’t make much difference.

I don’t think there are any rigorous definitions, but not just for fanfiction. What’s the difference between science fiction and fantasy? How about Buffy - is that science fiction or fantasy or horror or what? Is Tremors a horror movie or a comedy? Some plays, particularly in the Romantic period, were written to be read, not acted, but are in play format - are they still plays? R&GAD itself - is it a comedy or a serious play? If you film a play, is that recording now a movie, or is it still a play? How about stories designed to be read aloud - are they books or scripts for performances? The definitions are all very loose and many, if not most, works fit into multiple categories.

So it’s possible for R&GAD to be both a fanfiction and whatever other appellation you can justify attaching to it.