Oh, very much so, but he’s also the only president to have a Ph.D. In any case, I’m suspicious of IdahoMuleMan’s boast:
How noble, but who on this board is making such claims?
Reagan > Palin > StarvingArtist > fencepost >onlysanepersonleftontheplanet > Susanann > YouTube commenter > ralph124c
I don’t know, but I wish they’d quit with the random capitalization.
Saw him a minute ago. Floppy hat, tunic, rope belt, mumbling something about a CT scan…
I don’t take umbrage at it. The line was understood at the time to be a reference to Reagan’s alleged cluelessness, lack of knowledge, and confusion over the facts. (As you undoubtedly know, virtually all the quips in these debates are carefully prepared in advance, and the candidates look for opportunities to squeeze them in.)
This is not something that does not lend itself well to debate, but people who were alive and following politics at the time should remember it. Reagan as the clueless guy who knew little and was confused about even that was a common theme at the time. He was widely alleged to derive all his knowledge of the world from his own personal experience and other anecdotal evidence, and also from movies, which - it was claimed - he often confused with fact.
The Mondale line was a reference to that. I wasn’t trying to prove anything from it, and looking at the words years later you can spin it this way and that. It was an illustration. That’s how it was. If you disagree, we’ll have to leave it at that.
From your cite
You can quibble about whether British English and American English are two separate languages, but as the term is conventionally used British would not be considered a language, and certainly not in the context in which Obama was using it.
It’s possible that Obama mistakenly thought Austrian is a language - and there have been lengthy threads on this MB in which many intelligent people have confessed to having been unaware of various basic facts at late stages in life. More likely, it was just a slip of the tongue. Either way, the point is the same. There’s no one alive who speaks as much as these politicians do, no matter how intelligent, that you couldn’t mine through their words and find some evidence of imbecility, if you were inclined to interpret it that way.
Correct. Not just that, but that words and events are twisted into conformity with the meme, and consistently interpreted along those lines. “Al Gore claims to have invented the internet” is an example of that.
It means that if there was some meme about Obama being a dummy, this is something that people would point to as an example.
Obama is by all indications a very intelligent guy. But even people who are very intelligent slip up on occasion. It’s worth considering that fact when dwelling on the intelligence of other people.
Haha :smack:.
Not related to a poster to this thread who uses a similar name.
But you knew that.
Or it’s a species of threadshitting, to say in effect, "you can never be too sure when speaking of someone else’s intelligence, whether you’re speaking intelligently yourself or whether you’re just barking out your ass, so the entire subject is too nebulous to discuss.’
I think it’s a good mark of intelligence to set up two known figures, one obviously dumb and the other obviously not, and ask “Are their intelligence levels comparable?” Anyone, given that choice with say Alvin Greene and Colin Powell who says “yes” is obviously speaking out of bias (or hisas) and so should be discounted. Likewise Obama and Palin.
Palin defenders need to accept that when speaking of her virtues, they’re best to concede she doesn’t have a lot of book-learning, policy sophistication, analytic abililty, etc. and push her other virtues, such as they are. When they try to blow smoke up my ass, though, I lose interest in the discussion.
Sure. But technically this wasn’t even a slip. Even if Austrian is a mere dialect of German, with 99% of the grammar and vernacular in common, a specific idiom like “wheeling and dealing” could easily be distinct in Austria. Heck, American English and British English vary wildly when it comes to slang and idiom, and even within those dialects is considerable regional variation.
That might make sense if Obama was a guy who knew German and was wondering for some reason whether maybe there was some difference in the Austrian dialect regarding that specific term. In the context in which he was speaking, as an American guy who knew no German of any sort, that level of precision wouldn’t be warranted.
Plus, I don’t think people refer to Austrian German as “Austrian”. I’m pretty sure people would just refer to it as “German”, unless they wanted to distinguish it from other dialects, in which case they would say “Austrian German”. He would have said “Austrian German” if that’s what he meant.
So out of everything Obama has ever said, this misunderstanding on the Austrian dialect of the German language (something right on the forefront of every American’s mind) is the thing that proves he’s a dumbass.
Now … of all the things that Palin has said, what is the one thing she’s said that proves she *isn’t *a dumbass? I got nothing.
The meme was that he was this great intellectual, much smarter and more learned than Bush.
Gore flunked out of divinity school and dropped out of law school. Bush has an Ivy League MBA.
Regards,
Shodan
I watched with total fascination the series The Story of English on PBS. For this uneducated rube out of Bakersfield it was a true awakening. Anyway, I’m sure a similar story could be told of the Germanic language.
Take that, television haters!
A fairly typical reaction. I expected as much.
Let’s go to some tape, shall we?
I Googled for 15 seconds on “Obama brilliant” and a variety of pundit’s names…Garofalo, Maher, Olbermann, and it took me only 15 seconds to find a bookended hit.
Ladies and Gentlemen, from that intellectual luminary, Matt Damon!
Here’s Matt Damon before the election, referring to Obama as “brilliant”
Here’s Matt Damon recently, referring to being “let down” by Obama. Especially since “everyone expected all of our problems to go away”.
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2010/03/01/matt_damon_feels_let_down_by_president
Now Ladies and Gentlemen, who in their right mind expects an election of a President to “make all of their problems go away”? Especially someone with as thin, and typical, and mundane and non-brilliiant a prior track record as Barack Obama?
No rational thinking person of any maturity would ever think that way, and expect “all of their problems to go away”. It’s impossible. The only people who think that way are those who delude themselves and make feel-good gestures. Which as I’ve argued above, is probably what about 20% of the American voting populace did during the 2008 election.
40% were going to vote for Obama anyway, and 40% were going to vote for McCain. But the supposedly smart, rational people in the middle went for Obama in droves…and I would argue they fell under the same spell as our esteemed Mr Damon.
That’s a feel-good gesture. That’s self-delusion. He wanted to think Obama was brilliant because it rationalized his decision. He’s not alone.
Well, go e-mail Damon directly with your concerns. Why trouble us with them?
But when you listen to them speak, that difference in education doesn’t make itself obvious. One thing I’ve learned is that education (a degree) doesn’t always equal knowledge and intellegence.
Someone making a *rhetorical *point? Know what those are?
Compared to whom?
Well here’s a question for you, Jack. What would it take to make clear to you that no one is claiming the Austrian slipup proves Obama is a dumbass? I would have thought it was more than clear by now, but apparently not.
Very true.
of course, you might have considered making this exact same point earlier in this thread, when someone pointed to Palin’s educational background. You saved this argument for someone you liked better. But it would have been the same argument, logically.
Which ties in to my earlier point.
[BTW, going beyond Reagan, I believe much of the same process was applied to Eisenhower as well - another guy who became retroactively smarter over time.]
The degree to which Fungi-Phipps’ post has been misunderstood is almost Palinesque, if you will.
In what respect, Really?
His worldview?