Really? So Shodan’s behavior in the linked thread in the OP is what you’re going to hang your hat on?
First of all, Shodan’s question began with “So [point]?”, which makes it a rhetorical question, not a real question. His goal was not to ask anything (after all, what information was he seeking with that question?), but to mischaracterize the OP’s argument.
But it was mischaracterized in a way that was not only illogical, but completely out of the blue. No one was talking about deductions or charity. It made no sense. Shodan was trying to somehow connect largely unrelated concepts, one of which was obviously meant to shame his opponents by giving them comically evil motivations. (YOU CLEARLY HATE CHARITY!)
You think this thread is a perfect example of what’s wrong with your opponents - when in reality all I’ve done was in detail document really clearly stupid and assholish behavior - and yet the irony is that your post is a perfect example of what’s wrong with you. You’ll defend anything, no matter how dumb, if you perceive it as being something liberals are against. You cannot be so stupid as to honestly think Shodan was making some sort of valid point there, your knee-jerk opposition is entirely ideological and retarded.
Oh, and furthermore, as to him asking a question, he later said
Now I know you’re confused by the fact that his first statement had a question mark but wasn’t really a question. But here, this should clear it up for you - that statement has no question mark. So what question was he asking again?
And what about this?
This “conclusion” is made despite the fact that no one ever said anything remotely like the idea that tax deductions are wrong. And besides that.. I mean, really, you’re going to support that childish tantrum garbage? It’s fucking retarded. There’s no way you’re too dumb to see that. You’ve just decided that you’ll defend the dumbest fucking thing anyone says so long as they self-identify as conservatives.
I’m not at all sure that’s true. Shodan is a towering intellect compared to Clothy. I’ve never seen anyone else so consistently put actual words together that somehow manage to read as “hurr durr”.
This kind of thing is why it is so hard to take Pittings like these seriously. Because you are an idiot, and Pittings from idiots don’t raise any blisters.
The article linked to in the OP did specifically mention Romney’s charitable deductions, so you either know that, and are lying, or didn’t know it, and are blindly partisan and stupid.
Add to that the basic incoherence of an OP that claims that Romney shouldn’t pay more taxes voluntarily; he should ask the government to force him to pay more taxes.
And add to that the fact that you are a loud-mouthed idiot, and - well, here we are.
So what? The OP was only using one point from the linked article. If the article also said Romney liked ice cream and red cars, would you come saying “so it’s evil to like red cars, is that what you’re saying OP?!”
Do you understand how charitible deductions work? I explained it in the OP. It didn’t significantly affect his tax rate, so it’s not especially relevant to the discussion. Certainly no one in the thread made reference to the deductions, and it was irrelevant to the OP’s argument.
You understand that he’s running for president, right? And any bills that alter tax rate will pass on his desk, and he’ll make a decision on them? You make it sound as though he’s some sort of helpless bystander. The OP’s point is that it’s bullshit for Romney to say that people like him are already overtaxed when the reality is that they get off easy compared to the average joe.
Oh noes, indications that you still have no idea what the fuck is going on, then making shit up, and then throwing generic insults at me. I’m heartbroken.
One of the loudest voices on whether it should be right for Romney to be paying only 15% in federal taxes on his overall income was…Newt Gingrich, who is purposefully attacking Romney as a “Massachusetts moderate”. How do you explain that, Shodan?
Only in the Shodanosphere could this be considered a shocking position. Lots of millionaires of good conscience advocate for higher tax rates on themselves and others in their tax bracket.
In the real world, inter-party primary sniping is par for the course.
In the Shodanverse, as soon as one has the clear imprimatur from the Republican Party, the other one will retroactively always have been no-true-conservative and probably a closet liberal. Just like Bush.
As a complete aside, I always love the argument I’ve heard some conservatives make in response to people like Warren Buffet who argue that people in their tax bracket are not paying their share, namely “why don’t you just go ahead and pay more taxes if you love paying taxes so much??” It’s so impressively brainless it’s hard to even begin to respond.
And it raises the question, if voluntary tax increases are a good thing, how about voluntary spending cuts? If a member of Congress thinks we should cut spending, why not start with his own district, and send back the excessive portion of the federal spending that is spent there?
A long time ago, I took to calling him Shobot, because his posts gave the impression of being bot generated, triggered by some combination of words that suggested a political discussion was going on. So my position is that there has been precisely zero change in his postings. He isn’t programmed to learn or improve.
It’s also fallacious to suggest that he engages in turn quoquery. That level of content or thought is above him. Mr. Moto is a much better example of someone for whom the tu quoque is his métier.
Shobot’s schtick is simply the blind assertion that Democrats or liberals are motivated by nothing other than blind partisanship. One might search for how often he has used the phrase “the usual suspects” to frame any discussion, if one were so inclined.
If shodan’s posts ever make you stop and think, then I suggest your first thought should be “Is it possible to breathe through anything other than my mouth?”
Why bother to snipe at it, though, unless Newt thought he was appealing to his base…and, since that base is “conservatives to the right of Romney”, why did he think attacking someone for paying “too little tax” would be appealing to that base? Riddle me that, Shodan.
[QUOTE=Duke]
Why bother to snipe at it, though, unless Newt thought he was appealing to his base…and, since that base is “conservatives to the right of Romney”, why did he think attacking someone for paying “too little tax” would be appealing to that base? Riddle me that, Shodan.
[/QUOTE]
Possibly because you don’t understand the folks who comprise the ‘conservatives to the right of Romney’ base? There are a lot of poor folks who rabidly vote Republican and who do so for reasons other than the supposed Republican mantra of ‘making rich people richer’. You have all of your quasi-religious right wingers who want abortion outlawed, prayer put back in schools and evolution playing second fiddle to creationist teachings. For those kinds of folks Romney is the anti-Christ, and telling them that he is paying ‘too little tax’ would certainly strike a chord. THOSE are the folks the Eye of Newt is hoping to appeal to with this stunt.
Pretty much anyone to the right in Romney is united in the idea that taxing the rich is evil, even the dirt poor religious fundies and such. They’ve done a really amazing job creating a huge amount of people who really do think in fox news talking points.
[QUOTE=Duke]
Of course it’s more nuanced than that, x, I want Shodan to admit it.
[/QUOTE]
No worries then. It IS more nuanced than just saying everyone on the right thinks (to quote SB above) ‘anyone to the right in Romney is united in the idea that taxing the rich is evil’, and pointing out that Romney pays ‘so little’ in taxes (percentage wise) certainly strikes chords with more than liberals or the ‘liberal media’ or whatever.
Should be an easy thing for him to admit, since if he knows anything about the various whacko groups under the Republican big tent he’ll know why this theme about The Rich™ in the US isn’t just a liberal meme.
I really don’t think it’s a position that lacks nuance. I’ve never met anyone who self identifies as a republican who supports the idea of an increased tax load on the top bracket. I have met people who are barely scraping by who will argue against the payroll tax cut extension but in favor of extending the bush tax cuts.
I get your point - that the republican party is made up of all different factions with different motivations - but on the basic issue of taxes, they’ve done such a masterful propoganda job that they’re all totally in sync against them, even if they have no personal stake in it at all.
I’ve met a lot of self identified ‘conservative Republicans’ who are every bit as resentful of The Rich™ as any good liberal, and who this would definitely strike a chord with. Most of them are vertical issue Republicans. Some are big on opposing gun control. Some are, as already stated, of the quasi-religious wing of the Republican party. These are small town folks though. They don’t get the big press. But they DO vote. And I think these are the target audience for the Newt-ster when he talks about Romney only paying 13% income tax.
Out of curiosity, who did you think his target audience was for that? Or did you think Newt screwed up by mentioning it?