I don’t know if I actually mean “corrupt.” I’m not sure what the word is.
I was watching the Nationals last night and Sasha Cohen went full on splat on one jump and had a major screw up on another. Yet, she received a perfect 6 from one judge. I am by no means an expert on skating - I basically just watch it every now and then.
I guess I just don’t understand why, in an age when every sport seems to be more and more scrutinized, skating slips under the radar and this stuff seems simply a part of the sport. It seems like the judges take standing and past performance into consideration, which I suppose is okay if it was stated in the rules, but I don’t think it is. How can something be deemed perfect when you fall on your ass?
I think so, because this Kwan women isn’t anything special, IMO. She get’s the highest score for taking the smallest risks in her jumps, and basically everything she does. She’s all hype and nothing more. The others at least try some of the risker jumps, and some fail, but those that get it right are scrutinized by judges for stupid arching of the back in the air, and stupid shit like that. A lot of that stuff you can barely see, but they got this camera that shows every frame in their jump and they scrutinize them even more, even if they landed perfect. The worst ones are the women commentators. Can you say stuck up bitch?
The 6.0 was clearly absurd – just as the 7 6.0’s that Michelle Kwan got were clearly deserved.
The question of scoring in skating has been hotly debated for years – the ISU (International Skating Union) has finally started responding to the criticism – especially strident after the debacle in pairs at the Salt Lake Olympics two years ago – and has been experimenting with a new scoring system, used during the Grand Prix series this year, though not at Nationals and not (IIRC) at Worlds, which will be held in March. You can read about it here.
Thanks Twickster. I wonder why it’s not implemented across the board.
I actually think Michelle Kwan skated flawlessly and agree that she deserved her numbers. It’s also nice to see a national champion (I’m just going on memory here, so I could be off) who wins without falling or [Kerrigonian speak] “baubbling.” I would disagree with ParentalAdvisory and say it’s better to skate a clean program than to attempt and fail. Button-head made a worthwhile observation when he said that Peggy Flemming was simple but mesmorizing.
Personally, I wish the sport would return to the beauty of figure skating and not worry so much about the triples. Kwan’s footwork at the end of her program was better than any jump.
The new scoring system will probably be fully implemented next year. This year they were just giving it a trial run for the Grand Prix events, but it seems to have worked really well and everybody loves it.
I can’t really comment on what happened at the US nationals - I was too busy watching the Canadian nationals - but I did find the results at the Canadians encouraging. Everyone got the marks they deserved, people weren’t held up because of their reputation, and there were a number of upsets. The new Canadian women’s champion, Cynthia Phaneuf, is a 15-year old I’d never even heard of before, while the 6-time champion, Jennifer Robinson, had a bad skate and wound up third. Same thing in the pairs - Langlois and Archetto were fifth in the world last year, had a number of mistakes in their long program at Canadians, and wound up second to a team that almost quit after a disastrous performance at nationals last year.
All in all, I’m actually feeling more optimistic about figure skating than I have in years.
Yeah, the same was true at U.S. Nationals, Ms Macphisto – the scoring was based on what happened on the ice, and not any preconceived notions. Michelle Kwan really skated beautifully – it’s those tiny details that you dismiss, Parental Advisory, that make her such a dominant skater. Yes, she can jump, and does – but her position in her spiral is perfect, and held long enough so you can appreciate her perfection. Similarly, Sasha Cohen’s attention to “picky little details” make her a potentially great skater – I think the person who gave her the 6.0 was seeing those and forgot about the fall, something that wouldn’t (couldn’t?) have happened under the new scoring system.
The new men’s champion, Johnny Weir (local boy who trains locally! woo hoo!), also won fair and square yesterday. I found it significant that no one was doing quads in the men’s competition yesterday – the re-emphasis on artistry that comes along with the new system has begun to affect how programs are structured, I think.
I was highly dubious about the new system when they introduced it – and I still miss the tolling announcement of the scores across the board – but I’m beginning to think it’s a genuine reform.
And I don’t see how you can fault Kwan. She was the only top female skater to skate without falling during the long program. Her victory was very well deserved. Her musicality is wonderful, her jumps are textbook perfect and her in betweens are seemlessly flowy. The only thing I would like to see is better spirals from her.
If not Kwan, then who? No one was else was as good.
As for Weir, while I was impressed with his artistry and basic technique, he’ll need a quad to be competitive with the Europeans and Asians.
I agree, Sam H., Weir’s not up to the best of the international skaters right now – but it’s interesting to see some of the potential contenders for the '06 Olympic team start to take to the ice. With Goebbels’s injuries, I’m not sure he’ll be skating in Turin – and og willing Michael Weiss will not be on that team either.
Has the team for this year’s worlds been announced yet?
Irrespective of what did or didn’t happen to Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen, skating at an international level is quite obviously corrupt. Ice dancing at an international level is essentially 99% as scripted as pro wrestling. Pairs and singles figures aren’t quite that bad, but they’re openly fixed, with judges exchanging favours quite liberally.
It’s possible the new scoring system will help remedy this, but it remains to be battle tested.
Boxing is WAY worse, though. Boxing is heavily, heavily fixed and mobbed up, at both the amateur and professional levels. There hasn’t been an honest Olympics in boxing in decades.
Well you have to remember that the skaters are given two scores.
One score is for technical merit. In this scoring a riskier program is rewarded. If you try a harder jump and say are a little loose on the landing you will score higher than someone who tries an easier jump and does it perfectly.
The second for is for ‘Aritstic Merit’. The problem is that people think the scoring for a sporting event should be objective. Like for instance. Who scored the most baskets? That team wins. But judging artistry is by it’s nature subjective. Did the skater perform an artistic program? Well that’s up the judge. On the international level, well this is where things get screwy. But think of the cultural differences between say Japan, Russia, France and the United States. What a person from Japan finds ‘artistic’ may not be what a person from France finds artistic. So you can start to see weird stuff there.
But then again when I found out that after miscounduct at one olympics a judge was suspended, with the suspension running out just in time so that judge could work the next olympics, I just had to say “What were you THINKING?”
Which, while certainly deserved, could also be interpreted as the judges deciding that if we give them the gold maybe they’ll shut up and go away. I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case, just a possibility. Ice dancing’s fun to watch, but I don’t put it in the same category as singles and pairs. When a reasonably informed fan can predict the order of the top 10 in ice dance well in advance of the Worlds with almost complete accuracy, there’s something wrong. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if the new judging system changes anything. I’m fairly confident it’ll work well with pairs and singles, but I’m not sure anything can fix dance.
Ice skating judging is so subjective in the artistic merit part that sometimes it is unfair, or so it seems. I think Michelle Kwan is something special and has been for years. According to this site she is a 5 time World Champion, 8 time National Champion and 2 time Olympic Medal winner. She hasn’t won an Olympic Gold Medal but surely she is the best American skater in the past 8- 10 years.