Look, he offered it as an explanation of why “Sorry, no” would cause disappointment. But they’re very different scenarios. I understand the concept. As a matter of fact he was responding to the post where I said “Sorry, no” was clearly unfriendly.
And I don’t have anything to learn from this. I wouldn’t just say “Sorry, no” if someone wanted to pet my dog. I expect people to ask things like that, and I wouldn’t say no unless there was a reason, and I give some them some reason. Even if Blackjack just got his flea medicine on I’d probably say to someone “Sorry, no, I just put flea stuff on him and it will get on your hands. But if you see us here at the park again he’d love for you to come pet him”.
And actually when he first came to live with me and I had to be cautious until I was sure of his temperment, I had to tell people he’d only recently got his shots up to date but he seems to love people, and to check again next time they saw us. I didn’t bother telling them that I couldn’t guarantee he wouldn’t bite, because I wanted him to have more friends. And Blackjack draws a crowd, because he is the best dog ever, and people can tell that just by looking at him. They want to pet him and he wants to be petted. So this is one situation where I definitely know how not to be a jerk. But if you are reading this thread you’ll see that the question of whether “Sorry, no” is impolite is still unresolved. I think calling it clearly unfriendly is a way to describe it without being stuck in some ambiguously defined concept of etiquette.
And I think a lot of the unfreindliness I’m receiving about this subject after asking a reasonable question is really just because I have a better dog than any of you, and you guys are jealous. I’m not trying to disrespect your dogs, or you if you aren’t lucky enough to have a dog for a best friend, but it’s just a fact that Blackjack is the best dog ever, and I don’t mind saying so, and neither does he.
Sorry but no. Such is the reason why the polite response to that answer is to simply say “Oh. Well then have a nice time out with your dog.” And leave without more needing be said. It’s why asking for more explanation would be impolite. The polite action for you to take is not what makes you feel least uncomfortable but what avoids discomfort for the other person. And of course no one has claimed that the only responses are “No, sorry.” or an explanation … other options are possible and some have even been suggested.
TriPolar, find one person who says that “Sorry, no” is necessarily impolite. I don’t think anyone has here. But there have been people who seem to think it’s not impolite, no matter what.
Who do you think is being more reasonable?
No question posed on the SD has ever been resolved with 100% consensus.
And have to “resolve it” for that matter is both pointless and stupid.
So, if 51 percent here said “not impolite” and 49 percent here said “I’d think you were a jackass” does that mean “sorry, no” is probably a good idea to implement?
I didn’t ask if it was a good idea. If there are well enough codified rules of ettiquette to rely on, this could be in GQ. Maybe there are, I don’t know. But I don’t know what you are all on about here. I’m the one now saying it’s undecided if it’s impolite or not, and that it’s clearly unfriendly. So go complain to the people who still insist it is definitely not impolite.
I had thought it was not impolite before, but it wasn’t something I decided by analyzing in the depth that has been done here. Now based on the varying opinions, it seems to be undecided. Why is that bothering you?
Look, it’s either something that can be established as a fact, or it’s a matter of opinion. In this case, so far, the opinions vary, there’s no clear consensus. That’s what makes it undecided. But you seem to have decided for yourself, and dismiss anything else anyone has to say on the subject. So why do you keep harping on it? You’ve stated clearly that in your opinion it is impolite. Others disagree. What’s the big deal? Do you even have a dog?
You thought this was possibly a fact? Heck, actual experts can’t even unanimously agree on most fact like things being facts and what those exact facts are.
And again HOW are we going to REACH some sort of “consensus”? What are you going to use to decide we have reached one?
Of course this was mostly a matter of opinion. You thought it would be otherwise? A clear consensus? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. But thats beside the point.
Again, as I asked lets say its 51% not technically inpolite and 49 percent jackass what’s your decision of the most wise way to procede in your life with said information?
Its undecided because its not going to be. It IMO can’t be. Or you could tell us some definition of “decided”.
And yes I am a dog owner, lover, and pretty much a whisperer for that matter.
billfish, you’re hung up on what* decided *means. I just meant a consensus since this is obviously a matter of opinion. 49% to 51% doesn’t form a consensus. And this has nothing at all to do with the way I proceed in life. It’s a question, and there are answers to questions, sometimes conclusive and definitive, and sometimes not.
And why haven’t you mentioned your dog before in a thread so obviously about dogs? That’s kind of impolite and unkind to your dog who probably has an opinion on this subject. Blackjack’s opinion is that any answer besides “Yes, please pet my dog, scratch his butt, rub his belly and give him something to eat” is impolite. So there’s another opinion on the subject.
Yes, it is, because it’s completely unnecessary. Where have you gotten this idea that lying is not generally seen as bad and an indication of bad character?
True, but the context of the usage still makes it a lie, not because you aren’t sorry, but because you aren’t intending to be polite. When you are intending to be polite, this idea:
means you’ve already labeled the person to be an entitled person, and thus are deliberately not giving them because of that. Or, worse, you’re the type of impolite person who never does anything for anyone unless it is required.
It doesn’t matter that you aren’t entitled to an explanation. Giving one is the polite thing to do. Not giving one is the entitled position: “It doesn’t matter that doing this might make our interactions smoother and make the other person happy. I don’t have to do anything I don’t want to do. In fact, fuck them for even daring to ask.”
Calling them entitled is just deflection and possibly projection.
Or, to put it in a less rude way (I’m just trying to speak the language of the confused, so they can understand me): Politeness is about going beyond what the other person is entitled to. If you just do what you feel you are required to do, you are not being polite, and will likely be perceived as boorish, if not a jerk.
Problem is, it’s generally impolite to tell you this, so you go through the world ignorant.
EDIT: That’s one of the general flaws of politeness–it’s impolite to tell someone they are being impolite. A lot of Miss Manners questions are about how to sneakily let the person know they are being impolite without telling them–but these are the people who didn’t pick up on the hints that people thought they were being rude in the first place, so what chance is there that they’ll pick up on the hints you drop now? It is, honestly, and advantage of the Aspie way.)
I think we were all in agreement on that thread a while back where someone wanted to know if it was cool for him to fish a popcorn bucket out of the trash can at the movies and take it up to the counter to get a free refill. (I think I’m remembering this correctly.)
It’s interesting to me that some of the most vociferous faction of those who think that “Sorry, no” is ill-mannered are also seemingly the most ill-mannered posters in this thread. Accusations, snide comments and “diagnoses” of a pop culture version of Asperger’s are practically self-reflexive.
Thank you, that is the right answer, and phrased better than my own failed attempt.
The core of being polite is to try to put the other person at ease. If you are thinking of what they might believe they are owed, or having a thought of “they should grow a thicker skin” then you are not taking the attitude necessary to courtesy.
Courtesy says we should feel we owe thanks when we are given something, but not feel we are owed thanks when we give. Scolding people for not sending thank-yous is not polite. Sending thank-yous is polite. Failing to thank someone is not polite. It isn’t paradoxical, it’s all stemming from the original point that the idea is to put the other person at ease.
And as a simple rule, it should be easy enough for even socially ill adept to understand (though not nearly as easy to put into practice).
Also keep in mind, though, that courtesy is very demanding as a practice, no matter how conceptually simple it may be, and that everyone slips up and has days that they aren’t up to the challenge of keeping track of everyone else’s feelings the way they would need to. That’s just one reason it’s polite to overlook others’ courtesy lapses
