Do you think that walking out of the gym in yoga pants and a sports bar increases a woman’s chance of being raped?
Do you thinking wearing very revealing and sexy clothes at a bar or club increases a woman’s chance of being raped?
Do you think wearing very sexy or revealing clothes at a college party increases a woman’s chances of being raped?
I missed this. Women are told these things CONTSTANTLY. We have endless discussions about where the line is and where it isn’t. We forward each other news stories like they were baseball cards and talk about to what degree the victim might have mitigated that risk.
Are you an expert on anything? I’m an expert on college admissions/SAT. Whenever something happens, like the recent college admissions scandal, people forward me articles for weeks, months, just in case I hadn’t seen it. And I don’t say anything, but it’s a little annoying, because of COURSE I know about this. It’s my fucking job to know about this. I think my feelings there are a pretty common experience for anything anyone is an expert at.
Well, all women are experts at minimizing the danger of sexual assault. We are seeped in it. So don’t worry that no one ever told that poor woman not to [do that thing]. She’s been told.
No, I do not feel unsafe outside of my home.
And again, my stance on this is merely that the advice itself should not be considered inherently misogynistic. That is all.
Yes, I think revealing clothing does increase her chance, because she is more likely to be noticed when she is wearing more revealing clothing. The more people who notice her, the greater the chance that one of those people is a creep. If the creep doesn’t notice her or notices someone else, he’s not going to go after her.
And I also think that walking through the parking lot with blinders on also increases her chance, since it makes it easier for a creep to watch her or follow her.
Although anyone can be attacked, the more alluring someone is to a creep, the more aware they need to be. That goes for men as well. Although not sexually assaulted as much, a man can easily be alluring as a target to be robbed. A man who has very obvious wealth should not be walking through a dark parking lot staring at his phone either.
Ok, but then why do so many women leave the gym like I describe, where they are in revealing clothing and are engrossed in their phone?
But that’s not true. It make a sort of intuitive sense to you, because you aren’t a rapist, and when you try to imagine what a rapist is thinking, you get it wrong. This is an article in the Post:
Rapists don’t appear to be “activated” by alluring appearences. They may be activated by more passive behavior–which makes it more likely that they will be successful.
Because she’s assessed the risks and decided that it’s a level of risk/reward she’s willing to live with. Or she’s not really staring at her phone–she’s paying pretty close attention but uses the (not plugged in) headphones and the screen to look disinterested, as being drawn into a conversation with a stranger trying to hit on you is MUCH more likely that a bullrush-style assault, and those conversations can also lead to violence or at least extreme anxiety.
I mean, I think people that bike on the street after dark are taking a risk I wouldn’t be comfortable taking–a risk I don’t think is worth it–but I don’t think they are literally unaware of the fact that they are taking a risk. I don’t think it’s just no one has ever been able to tell them it’s dangerous. Do you?
I know that. I find it hugely insulting for men to give women advice on how to not get assaulted. Men should spend their time telling other men not to assault women.
Or you could do both.
If they think this is relevant in any discussion about rape, then they’re ignorant at best.
But you said “most cases”. What are the other cases in which you think it is useful info?
Basically, what I’m getting at, is that there’s no evidence that wearing revealing clothing increases the likelihood of rape.
Perhaps. But I don’t spend my time giving unasked for advice to people who know better than I about what they should be doing.
What would you tell a hypothetical young daughter of yours?
What would you? Aside from “don’t get in a car full of knives”?
That’s easy. I don’t need permission to give my daughter advice.
“Don’t get blackout drunk”
“Stay with your friends”
It’s not hypothetical because I have a daughter.
And it’s the same advice I’d give my non-hypothetical son.
That is pretty solid advice. You forgot the rope though. How would I elaborate on that? Even at the risk of misogynistic, victim shaming? I am not sure. What am I permitted to say?
If someone asks for your advice, you say “you could do…” whatever.
And if something happens to them, you say “I’m sorry that happened to you” and not “Told you so!”
It’s actually not that hard.
Who said anything about “I told you so?” This is about mitigating risk and if it’s evil to suggest clothing may play a role not about scolding victims after the fact. Why try to reframe it as such?
Well, surprising as it may seem, sometimes what you think is an understood fact is not quite so simple, as I learned in this thread.
Sure, you could offer your unasked for advice of “Don’t wear revealing clothes if you want to lessen your chance of being assaulted” but I’ve not seen any correlation between “revealing clothing” and assault. Have you?
To answer you and iiandyiiii, no I haven’t. I haven’t seen anything that can answer that definitively one way or the other. Most search results have opinion pieces and anecdotes that say clothing doesn’t matter. One said modest dress was a contributing factor as it signaled meekness. It was an anecdote that I found surprising.
But anyways, if I saw a legit study that proves no correlation between dressing and sexual assault I’d believe it. I would still caution that dress in general can lead to other forms of assault and that how one dresses has a bearing on one’s outcome in life.
Now all that said, I don’t believe that offering what one believes to be helpful advice is necessarily misogynistic. It might very well be ignorant or foolish.
Fair enough, and I have no doubts that others who know way more than I about this could offer such studies. I will say that “Don’t dress like an American” is advice offered when traveling to other countries, so I don’t doubt that dress can affect some types of outcomes.
Sure, but don’t offer that advice unasked, and you could avoid a lot of problems.
True, which makes “don’t bring home or date or marry men you can’t trust” kind of a stupid suggestion considered in terms of useful practical advice to women about reducing their risk of sexual assault.
And again, it needs emphasizing that all such advice, even the small percentage of it that is actually useful and practical, is implicitly expecting women to take on an extra burden to compensate for men’s failure to fulfill their basic obligations.
Just to be clear, you are again changing words to “advice”, which is not what **Shodan **was saying.