Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What?

[Kokopilau]

@brazil84

No it isn’t. :Yawn:

So you’re only kinda a liar?

Whatever.

Ya simpering simpleton.

Sure. We don’t know one way or another. That’s why I’m not claiming that Dr. Kim never spoke to Speaker about isolation. And why I don’t need to offer a cite.

See, if I’m not making a certain claim, I don’t need to back it up with a cite.

No, but as soon as you said “there’s just as much evidence for what I said as what you said”, and I’ve provided links for what I said, then either you have to do the same, or admit you were wrong about that.

Or I suppose you could do what you always do in situations like these, which is to wail uselessly and call me a liar because reality once again is a harsh mistress and refuses to conform to your assholishness delusions.

Hey, anyone wanna make any bets as to what he’ll do?

On the other hand, YOU made a specific claim – that a doctor spoke to Speaker about isolation. Your cite didn’t say what you claim it said – you had to add your own speculation.

You have an Alanis-level grasp of irony, it seems.

[brazil84]

@Kokopilau

No, but as soon as you said “there’s just as much evidence for what I said as what you said”, and I’ve provided links for what I said, then either you have to do the same, or admit you were wrong about that.

Why? My cites were exactly the same as yours and I said as much. And ultimately I quoted your own quote.

Or I suppose you could do what you always do in situations like these, which is to wail uselessly and call me a liar

What can I say? There’s a word for people like you who tell lies. They are called “liars.”

[Kokopilau]

@brazil84

Why? My cites were exactly the same as yours and I said as much. And ultimately I quoted your own quote.

So, your cite for the fact that some CDC drone may have called Speaker is my cite that Dr. David Kim called Speaker, to the point where you repeatedly call me a liar over it?

Wow. That’s…kinda psychotic. And really stupid.

What can I say? There’s a word for people like you who tell lies. They are called “liars.”

Neener neener to you too, ya gutless gutternsnipe.

[brazil84]

@Kokopilau

So, your cite for the fact that some CDC drone may have called Speaker is my cite that Dr. David Kim called Speaker,

That plus the rest of the cite.

to the point where you repeatedly call me a liar over it?

I repeatedly called you a liar mainly over your lie in post 569.

[Kokopilau]

@brazil84

That plus the rest of the cite.

Which is what? Can you quote the relevant bits?

Though I admit that it will be hard for you to quote the voices in your head, given the way they ramble so.

I repeatedly called you a liar mainly over your lie in post 569.

No, you called me a liar over this, too.

Doesn’t it hurt, running headlong into cold hard reality at full speed, over and over?

[brazil84]

@Kokopilau

Which is what? Can you quote the relevant bits?

Asked and answered. Post 826.

No, you called me a liar over this, too.

Possible, but as I said before:

I repeatedly called you a liar mainly over your lie in post 569.

Doesn’t it hurt, running headlong into cold hard reality at full speed, over and over?

You tell me.

[stretch]

Brazil84, please stop hijacking this thread with your repeated screams of liar. Kokopilau has not lied and has specifically acknowledged that original claims by the CDC have since been, shall we say, somewhat caveated.

You on the other hand keep speculating about scenarios that have no support. You are not required to cite your opinions–they are after all just stuff pulled from your ass. However, due to the purely speculative nature of most of your posts and commentary, you must realize why other posters are not willing to give them much if any weight.

Others make speculations and bring cites to explain why they have these opinions. In this thread, you are being an ass.

[Tuckerfan]

@stretch

In this thread, you are being an ass.

That’s an understatement if I ever saw one.

[brazil84]

@stretch

Brazil84, please stop hijacking this thread with your repeated screams of liar. Kokopilau has not lied and has specifically acknowledged that original claims by the CDC have since been, shall we say, somewhat caveated.

Here’s what he said last night:

No, I explained that when I wrote what I did, statements had been made to that effect by the CDC, and later new evidence was revealed AFTER I made my post which showed that not to be the whole case.

Sorry, but that was a lie.

You on the other hand keep speculating about scenarios that have no support.

In which posts? Name 3. Just give me 3 post numbers.

[Tuckerfan]

“TB Toby” gets to have part of his lung removed.

The infected area is about the size of a tennis ball, hospital officials said.

The operation should improve Speaker’s chances of recovery by removing most of the tuberculosis organisms in his lungs, leaving fewer that must be killed by antibiotics, National Jewish said in a written statement.

[Mouse_Maven]

@Tuckerfan

“TB Toby” gets to have part of his lung removed.

Yep, he’ll be at the campus I work at.

According to a colleague at National Jewish, the media frenzy has passed. Somewhere out there is a picture of him blundering into a press conference.

[Boyo_Jim]

There is new news:

Andrew Speaker does not have XTR TB, the most dangerous form of TB. Now they say he has something called MDR TB, for “Multi Drug Resistant”. It is treatable. Is is still considered dangerous, and public health officials claim that all the hoopla and isolation was justified even for this lesser form.

[Tuckerfan]

@Boyo Jim

There is new news:

Andrew Speaker does not have XTR TB, the most dangerous form of TB. Now they say he has something called MDR TB, for “Multi Drug Resistant”. It is treatable. Is is still considered dangerous, and public health officials claim that all the hoopla and isolation was justified even for this lesser form.

And Speaker’s blathered on about how he was “horribly singled out and persecuted.” The man’s a ginormous douche. How ginormous? If he was part of the Bush administration, he’d have gotten the Presidential Medal of Freedom by now.

[lisacurl]

@Boyo Jim

There is new news:

Andrew Speaker does not have XTR TB, the most dangerous form of TB. Now they say he has something called MDR TB, for “Multi Drug Resistant”. It is treatable. Is is still considered dangerous, and public health officials claim that all the hoopla and isolation was justified even for this lesser form.

From that article: "Speaker issued a statement saying the incident had affected his family’s ‘reputation, ability to make a living and good name.’ "

Hmm. I wonder if someone is going to sue the CDC.

[Tuckerfan]

@lisacurl

From that article: "Speaker issued a statement saying the incident had affected his family’s ‘reputation, ability to make a living and good name.’ "

Hmm. I wonder if someone is going to sue the CDC.

He’s an ambulance chasing shyster, it’s pretty much manditory!

[Tuckerfan]

Fuckwit goes home.

“Speaker’s physicians do not consider him completely cured yet, but his surgery and antibiotic treatment have eliminated any detectable evidence of infection, and he is noncontagious,” hospital officials said.

Because he is no longer contagious, Speaker could have traveled by commercial airline back home to Georgia when he was released at 6 a.m.

“Given the extraordinary attention he has received, everyone involved in the case agreed that it would be better to return home via air ambulance so as not to raise any undue public alarm. Mr. Speaker and his family were met in Georgia by Mr. Speaker’s parents and driven to an undisclosed location where he will continue his recuperation,” the hospital said.

Speaker will continue antibiotic treatment for the next two years.

[irishgirl]

Weird.
I don’t know, here TB is notifiable, and if someone doesn’t want to stay in hospital I can get a court order compelling them to do so for reasons of public safety, and it wouldn’t take more than 24 hours. Could the CDC and his doctors not have done this before he left the country in the first place?

At the moment the hospital I work in has 3 TB cases, one has been here for almost a year, the other is running into his 15th month, and the third is just sitting tight at 8weeks. They’re all in negative pressure isolation rooms, which are quite nice, much bigger than the other private rooms. They have their own exercise bikes, plasma TVs, telephones, DVD players and a CD player. We get them books and magazines too, and they can order whatever they like from the hospital kitchens, they don’t have to eat from the menu like everyone else. All provided by the state, which understands isolation is not pleasant.

None of them has XTRTB, two have MDRTB, the other one has bog-standard not very nice, infectious pulmonary TB. We still isolate them, and this is in a country where most people have either natural resistance to TB, or have been vaccinated, which cannot be said of the USA.

The civil liberties and human rights of the hundreds of thousands of people who could potentially become very ill due to your reckless endangerment of their health trump your right not to be isolated.

[Martin_Hyde]

@irishgirl

None of them has XTRTB, two have MDRTB, the other one has bog-standard not very nice, infectious pulmonary TB. We still isolate them, and this is in a country where most people have either natural resistance to TB, or have been vaccinated, which cannot be said of the USA.

It seems overblown to keep someone in an expensive hospital room for weeks or months at a time if they don’t have any form of drug resistant tuberculosis. We’ve yet to have a major TB epidemic here in the United States (speaking in the context of recent history) and we typically don’t force people with regular TB into hospital confinement. Seems like a pretty terrible and pointless violation of personal liberty that you’re taking part in there.

I can understand the needs of keeping people with XDR or even MDR TB isolated in some way, but I see no problem with giving people who have normal TB the option of living in their homes and having someone else doing their grocery shopping and et cetera for them. This has apparently worked out just fine in the United States, in 2000 there were 68 cases of TB per million in the U.S., with the number of cases decreasing by 7% every year.

Although not a very authoritative source (apparently some sort of blog) this suggests that Ireland has one of the highest TB rates in the EU and is facing a growing number of cases in spite of a decline in TB cases in the rest of the EU.

[irishgirl]

I should have clarified. The person with run o’ the mill TB isn’t in hospital purely for isolation, this person is in hospital because they are not a well bunny. We keep them in an isolation room, because it is better than keeping them in the open ward. The MDRTB guys are in isolation because they are still infectious, and one of them is still not a well bunny, months into treatment.

People who need weekly chest xrays, chest physiotherapy on a daily basis, twice weekly blood tests, tube feeding, blood transfusions, highly toxic medications, oxygen etc. do not, in general, do well in their own homes with someone bringing them groceries.

Yup, TB in Ireland is increasing, mostly in part due to the influx of immigrants from parts of the world (Africa, eastern europe) with endemic TB. It’s also because we’re picking up, and treating, a lot more latent TB. None of my three patients has English as a first language and none lived here for more than 12 months before their diagnosis.

No, we don’t routinely isolate or hospitalise everyone with TB, but that’s because most people take their medications and know what they’re not supposed to do until they are no longer infectious. There are monitoring and DOTS systems in place to ensure people take their medications.

However, if someone indicates that they wil not comply with treatment and intend to put others at risk (like by flying across the Atlantic ocean), then yes, I could get a court order and compel them to recieve treatment until they no longer pose a risk to public health, or are willing to comply with treatment.

The less I say about the USA’s policy on the treatment of TB, the better.