Is the Austrian school of economics finally dead with Ron Paul's retirement?

Well, I don’t think anyone was saying that the Chicago boys made killing dissidents part of their economic policy recommendations. But they certainly didn’t seem to object to it a whole lot. How many of them came back refusing to deal with a murderous dictator? How many of them kept on with their econlomic experiment despite the conspicuous murder of dissidents? If thats not “being OK with it” then what is? Do they have to pull the trigger themselves? Why isn’t their glaring lack of objection and criticism not enough to paint them as “being OK with it”

I don’t know if english is emacknight’s first language so perhaps he is confusing “being OK with” the murder of dissidents with the endorsement of the murder of dissidents.

That had not occurred to me. Thank you. I guess I could have written, “Go along with”. But really Charles Maechling Jr’s 1998 quote conveys what I wanted to say. Separately, there are people who come awfully close to endorsing the murder of dissidents. Pinochet apologists typically justify their rampage by implying that Allende was just about to do the same, without evidence. Their language tends to be slippery though: this 1988 LA Times article gives some flavor of the sort of psychology of the defenders of the regime.

There are mitigating factors for Friedman, mostly having to do with Zeitgeist. When President Carter made human rights a central plank of US foreign policy, many conservatives were aghast. The US had relations with a number of brutal Latin American generals who were reliably anti-communist. But there were also sensible Republicans -even highly conservative Republicans- at the time who supported Amnesty International and their evenhanded investigation of those who tortured and murdered dissidents.

Nonetheless on balance I would say that strong language on this issue is not inappropriate, though it may ruffle feathers. I remain open to considering caveats but I repeat that this isn’t something that I dreamed up, as shown from my quotes from 3 separate decades.

Incidentally, I will be on the road fairly soon, so my posting will be sporadic.

This is a 2011 thread: UPDATE

Yesterday I learned that Hayek made a personal visit to Augusto Pinochet, after receiving a briefing from Amnesty International, to the Austrian’s great annoyance. You see, Hayek liked Pinochet. I cite Cory Robin, Associate Professor of Political Science, Brooklyn College and the CUNY Graduate Center:
[QUOTE=Cory Robin]
He [Hayek] met with Pinochet and other government officials, who he described as “educated, reasonable, and insightful men.” According to the Chilean newspaper* El Mercurio*, Hayek

told reporters that he talked to Pinochet about the issue of limited democracy and representative government….He said that in his writings he showed that unlimited democracy does not work because it creates forces that in the end destroy democracy. He said that the head of state listened carefully and that he had asked him to provide him with the documents he had written on this issue.

Hayek complied with the dictator’s request. He had his secretary send a draft of what eventually became chapter 17—“A Model Constitution”—of the third volume of Law, Legislation and Liberty. That chapter includes a section on “Emergency Powers,” which defends temporary dictatorships when “the long-run preservation” of a free society is threatened. “Long run” is an elastic phrase… So the threats to a free society might not simply come from international or civil war. Nor must they be imminent. As other parts of the text make clear, those threats could just as likely come from creeping social democracy at home. If the visions of Gunnar Myrdal [“Swedish Nobel Laureate economist, sociologist, and politician” - wikipedia] and John Kenneth Galbraith [US economist and US Ambassador to India] were realized, Hayek writes, it would produce “a wholly rigid economic structure which…only the force of some dictatorial power could break.”
[/quote]
Emphasis added. That’s how Hayek advised General Pinochet. Allowing for some hyperbole, this differs little from my characterization:

Hayek did not merely provide Pinochet with kind words and ideological stroking. He actively campaigned for the murderous dictator (see top of page for Pinochet’s record):

In conclusion, I’d say that Austrian jabbering about freedom in no way prevents them from aiding tyrants in the real world. Sort of like the way Ron Paul cozied up with Holocaust deniers.

h/t Brad DeLong.

More accurately just “Hayek.” I dunno if he was a flaming asshole, but he was a tremendous contributor to the collection of human knowledge.

Economics is a science, and all research that contributes to our understanding of it is of benefit, whether it comes from the Austrian school, Marxist economists, Keynesians, or whomever.

Name one other member of US Congress committee on financial services - actually, any member of Conbress - who has ANY clue on what Bernanke is talking about when he makes an appearence in front of it?

Just one, please?

On the Hayek front, I have always interpreted The Road to Serfdom as referring to central planning, and not government programs or spending of all kinds. I don’t have my copy handy, but it seemed obvious to me that that’s what he was referring to, a Soviet-style command economy in which prices, wages, what’s to be produced in what quantity and by whom and whom it is to be consumed by, are all dictated by the government.

At the time, it wasn’t clear whether Socialism was a viable “third way” or merely a prelude to central planning. It now seems clear that Socialism is a stable economic system in its own right, a crucial distinction being that Socialism incorporates a free market.

Just curious - do you think quantitative easing is a feature of “central planning” or “socialism”?

Either, in theory. Both have a monetary base, and quantitative easing is just increasing the monetary base to stimulate the economy.

I recall Liberal a few years ago defending the Austrian school on the grounds that “economics is a formal science like mathematics, not an empirical science.” Actually. If that sounds brazen, bear in mind that Austrian-school economists actually admit their economics is not empirically verifiable.

Well, no, it doesn’t. What you are describing sounds like social democracy, not socialism whether democratic or authoritarian. (Democratic socialism, in fact, is actually the one thing that has never been tried.)

I suppose so, yes: some state-owned industries, high taxes, welfare state, etc. Clearly, this needn’t result in tyranny.

It might, it might not; the important thing to keep in mind is that it would not be tyranny ipso facto, pace the Austrians.

Agreed, though I don’t think that’s what Hayek meant. It’s certainly been misinterpreted, though.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd both had a decent grasp of financial policy. Ok, they’re retired, but still. Henry Waxman has a solid grasp of policy, though he doesn’t specialize in financial services. Barbara Boxer majored in economics and worked as a stockbroker and journalist.

Senator Warren is a world class expert on bankruptcy law.

And Ron Paul is a crackpot as far as economics is concerned.

Barney Frank on housing bubble talk in 2005: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE

Ron Paul on housing bubble in 2003: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnuoHx9BINc

:rolleyes:

What is your definition of tyranny?

My favorite example is Robert Wenzel of Economic Policy Journal saying:

Unaccountable power/authority. In a democratic-socialist system, power would be accountable, to the rule of law and/or to the electorate; in an authoritarian-socialist system, it is not.

Like I said, democratic socialism is the one thing never yet tried (unless you count the Paris Commune or the Spanish Revolution, neither of which lasted long, and the Spanish Revolution was more anarcho-syndicalist anway, fucking splitters, come and see the violence inherent in the system, etc.); but Venezuela, if it continues on its present course, which is highly doubtful, might get there in 10 or 20 years.

Why do Ron Paul fans always link to videos rather than the written word?
Back in reality, housing prices after the collapse were higher than they were in 2003, according to the Case-Shiller Housing index. So we weren’t bubbling at that time contra Ron, for those insufficiently starry-eyed to plow through the vid. And right-wing attempts to tie the housing bubble to Fannie/Freddie and the Community Reinvestment Act of 1978 have been refuted again and again. There are many ways to demonstrate this, one of the most dramatic being that they had a bubble in Spain and Ireland as well, without FF. Commercial loans also had a huge bubble with no FF involvement.

The common thread of course was irresponsible lending, backed by an unregulated shadow banking system. FF if anything showed more restraint than non bank mortgage providers. And where’s the mention of derivatives, rating agencies and structured products?

So Ron Paul as usual lives in his own fact-free little world.

ETA: I’m an ultra-liberal, so I’ll go out on a limb and say that rounding up thousands of your countrymen in a football stadium and shooting them is basically the embodiment of tyranny. Austrians disagree.

More love for Pinochet from American modern conservatives. A Wall Street Journal editorial comments on Egypt’s military coup:
Egyptians would be lucky if their new ruling generals turn out to be in the mold of Chile’s Augusto Pinochet, who took power amid chaos but hired free-market reformers and midwifed a transition to democracy. If General Sisi merely tries to restore the old Mubarak order, he will eventually suffer Mr. Morsi’s fate. That’s from 2 days ago, on the 4th of July. As Brad DeLong notes: “Midwifed a transition to democracy” is not how most Chileans see it. Indeed they do not, which is why I detailed Pinochet’s atrocities on the top of this page back in 2011. Recall also that Chile had a 100 year history of democracy prior to the 1973 military coup. The military government held on until 1990. Calling that a “Transition to democracy” is nothing but pure ignorance advocacy, pretty much the opposite of the truth. I didn’t know that the Wall Street Journal were among the Chilean tyrant’s biggest apologists, but I’m not especially surprised.