The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul

As I see it, the Republic field of candidates is incredibly weak. Palin, Romney, Jindal, Gingrich, Huckabee probably have no chance of winning. They won’t do ANY good in office. I sense there is a growing backlash against both Republicans and Democrats in this country. For those who are disappointed with Obama, yet don’t want to hand the country back over to the establishment Republicans given the recent disastrous Bush Administration, the field of possibilities is small. In fact I think this characterizes most of the country. People want a candidate whose hands are clean of the recent disastrous overseas wars (Iraq and Afghanistan), the economic meltdown, and somebody who is independent minded who actually has substance to their arguments. In evaluation of all the possibilities for a challenger to Obama in 2012, I have concluded that only one man can defeat Obama.

That man is Ron Paul.

First of all, as a preface to the meat of this post, understand this: Ron Paul was dead on accurate in predicting the catastrophic consequences of our foreign policy following 9/11 and forecast the economic meltdown years before anybody else. He is independent minded and has challenged both Republican and Democrat administrations for their foreign policy and economic policy for several decades. He also has a history of being right in predicting the consequences of bad policy at the time they are debated. This includes domestic economic policy as well as foreign policy.

Consider these videos from 2002 about the war:

He supported a vary narrowly defined effort to catch Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice in a swift and deliberate manner. He opposed nation building in Afghanistan, he opposed going to war with Iraq, he opposed the Patriot Act, suspension of habeas corpus, and all civil liberty violations by the Bush Administration. In fact his opposition was more forceful and deliberate than nearly any Democrat. History has proven he was right.

Furthermore, he is the only person in our government to understand and explain the motives behind terrorist attacks against us. As many historians, authors and experts have written about, but far too few politicians have acknowledged, Islamic terrorists don’t target us because we are rich and free, they attack us because we have been bombing the middle east, propping up dictators, overthrowing elected governments, causing the deaths of millions with our sanctions, and meddling in their affairs for decades. If we were poor Iraqis or Saudis or Pakistanis or Iranians many of us would react in much the same way. There is no other politician on either side of the isle that I know of that has expressed this common sense, logical thinking better than Ron Paul.

Contrast Ron Paul’s foreign policy and his understanding of the concept of Blowback with McCain’s knee jerk kowtowing to the military industrial complex (similar to most politicians in Washington, Democrat and Republican):

Also, Ron Paul is currently opposing the propaganda effort against Iran. History is repeating itself. The plans were laid for war with Iraq in the 90s. Consider this video from 1998, where Ron Paul supports impeachment of President Clinton, but for very different reasons. He supported impeachment for the illegal bombing of Iraq. Also, he predicts the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

*"For us to unleash bombs on Iraq at this particular time to kill more innocent people for narrow political reasons, no there is absolutely no need to cause more bombing because of a very, overall flawed foreign policy…

Our national security is more jeopardized by permitting this to happen, because *we’re liable to start a war, we’re liable to have our military men killed, we’re liable to have more attacks on us by terrorists."

The same thing is happening today with the propaganda and sanctions being considered against Iran. Ron Paul doesn’t just support bringing the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan, but from Germany, Japan, Korea and the rest of the 130 countries were we have troops stationed. We’re building fortresses overseas, yet we are broke and people are suffering here at home? Nobody can defend this insane foreign policy. A non interventionist foreign policy is a winning position if there ever was one.

Likewise, he predicted the economic crises years before anyone else, consider these links:

http://www.minnpost.com/craigwestover/2008/09/18/3559/ron_paul_saw_this_financial_mess_coming

Ron Paul understands that the Keynesian economic policy that Obama is pursuing will make the problem much worse and prevent a true recovery and most troublesome the possible collapse of the dollar. Consider these videos of Ron Paul explaining economics to talking heads and debating his solution with those who support the status quo:

As you probably know, Ron Paul has been a persistent critic of the Federal Reserve, arguing that it creates the moral hazard, inflates these financial bubbles and unfairly punishes the poor (and those on fixed incomes like the elderly) and transfers wealth to Wall Street and the well connected. He correctly dispels the notion that a Central Bank is part of the free market, showing how it is a form of banker Corporatism that rewards the well connected at the expense of everybody else.

He has pushed through a bill to audit the Federal Reserve which has gain vast bipartisan support. He wants to create transparency of this banking cartel and expose all the back room deals and find out exactly what they are doing to our money. In the end he supports ending the federal reserve system and again backing our currency with a tangible asset to maintain value of the dollar and prevent unaccountable government that can simply monetize debt. He feels, and so do I having studied the matter, that once people find out what the Federal Reserve really does and what they have been doing in secret for decades, there will be an overwhelming public support for ending this immoral institution. He repeatedly challenged Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke in hearings. Greenspan has been disgraced and Bernanke is looking like more of a fool every passing month. And Ron Paul has been proven right. A few of his exchanges with Fed chairmen:

So, Ron Paul was right on the economic crisis and he understands a superior economic school of thought (the Austrian School). In normal cases this stuff is too complex and intellectual for most Americans to understand. But not anymore. People are focused on the debt and the budget. They see the system is not working anymore and they are looking for answers. Conventional Keynesian theory offers no solutions. The inevitable consequence of Keynesian policy is the destruction of the currency. People instinctually know that we need to cut spending and balance the budget and fundamentally reorganize the way our economy functions.

So, Ron Paul favors cutting spending and balancing the budget, allowing liquidation of debt and malinvestment, auditing the Federal Reserve leading to ending the Federal Reserve. We have a problem with this, critics contend. You just want to throw people out on the street without medical care and welfare benefits? This is NOT Ron Paul’s position. He believes we need to continue to fund Medicare and Social Security for the foreseeable future. But we have to be honest with ourselves, Medicare and Social Security are bankrupt and if we wait until they simply collapse due to destruction of our dollar, everyone will be out on the street. So we have to have a transition period. There is no trust fund. Todays workers are working only to pay for the benefits going to seniors TODAY. They will get nothing when they retire. So, morally they should be allowed to opt out of the system and keep all their money and save for their retirements themselves. But what about the seniors and baby boomers who need help now? That is where Ron Paul’s ingenious transition plan back to fiscal sanity comes in. He contends that we should save hundreds of billions of dollars by ending our overseas empire and drastically cutting the defense budget. Then we would use that money to cut down on our deficit and use the rest to help the people currently dependent on Medicare and Social Security while allowing young people to opt out. For those who opt out, it would further reduce the long term unfunded liabilities of these programs getting us closer to a balanced budget.

Here is a video about the transition plan:

If you look at our condition rationally you would see that this is the only sensible option we have at this point in our history.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with Ron Paul, I will provide a rundown of his positions on the issues:

On the war on drugs:

On the environment:

On Health Care (Ron Paul is a doctor):

On Civil Liberties:

On Education:

On Immigration:

On the Constitution:

On the difference between Free Markets and Corporatism:

It is my belief that the platform that Ron Paul would run on would appeal to a majority of Americans. He demonstrated significant fundraising ability in 2007 and 2008 raising 35-40 million dollars during that primary season. Since then his organization and enthusiasm has expanded exponentially through his Campaign for Liberty organization. If he were to run I believe he could raise $50 - 60 - 70 Million dollars for a primary run. The whole country has shifted towards a libertarian direction. He would absolutely be a contender.

We are at a unprecedented position in our history. Circumstances are such that someone like Ron Paul could beat the odds and win the presidency. The internet is key. The ascendancy of Social Networking, Smart phones and online fundraising plus the reliance on the Internet for news and information will make the 2012 race one unlike any we have ever seen. Circumstances are such that the economy is issue number one in most peoples minds. Foreign policy is very important as well. If the economy continues to decline, confidence will be lost in mainstream economics and Obama’s “solutions”. If Obama continues his march towards war with Iran, an antiwar candidate will have serious appeal.

There are two issues raised in this thread. Whether Ron Paul is philosophically right on the issues and whether he can actually win. I believe he is both right AND can win if he ran in 2012. A recent Rasmussen poll showed Ron Paul in a dead heat with Obama:

http://open.salon.com/blog/timinglogic/2010/04/27/new_poll_president_obama_and_ron_paul_in_dead_heat_for_2012_presidential_election

No other republican candidate matches up as well with Obama. Ron Paul can get the Tea Party vote, and also the antiwar left, disillusioned Obama supporters, Independents, people of all stripes.

Polls show that his supporters are far more diverse than the typical white republican voter. He has the youth vote, he draws support from blacks (far more than any other republican in recent memory) hes got social liberals and social conservatives. His biggest problem is getting the stubborn, older conservatives who still love Rush Limbaugh, Bush and the Neocons. But that won’t matter, that is a dieing demographic (literally).

Ron Paul won the Straw Poll at CPAC. He finished second to Romney at SRLC by a single vote. His support is strong.

So, I want to hear your take on first, whether you think Ron Paul is correct on the important issues of the day (mainly economics and foreign policy) and whether or not you agree with me that he would be the strongest challenger to Obama.

Also, I would do ANYTHING to see a debate between Barack Obama and Ron Paul. Ron Paul would win so easily it would be insane. Ron Paul is a million times smarter than Barack Obama. If it came to that, I am confident that a majority of the country would see who is more qualified to occupy the highest office in the land.

I know I have written a lengthy thread here. I have also included a lot of youtube videos. I welcome all responses, but please put forth a bit of effort to look through the links I have provided. I spent a bit of time putting this together. I would hope you would do the same in responding.

I believe Ron Paul is one of the most brilliant philosophic and intellectual minds in the world today. He has courage. He has the respect of his colleagues. He has been proven right over and over and over again. I have never seen him lose a debate (I have never seen him have a worthy challenger).

In closing, consider these final videos of Ron Paul signally a warning to all of us in the form of prepared statements on the house floor:

Er, debate or witnessing?

Definately the latter.

I loved Ron Paul’s cameo in Bruno.

I agree, Ron Paul has the best chance to beat Obama. I give him 35%.

Leaving aside philosophic issues, you’re doing exactly what Ron Paul supporters did in 2008: cherry picking the poll that shows Paul doing well, and ignoring all the others.

See here for a more reasonable analysis of the issue.

Well, I was talking about smaller scale economics debates. Also every time he gets challenged on cable news networks. Not presidential debates.

Maybe this field has no chance of beating Obama, but does Ron Paul have a chance of beating this field to become the Republican nominee?

My guess is that Ron Paul will end up being the Republican Howard Dean - someone who generates a lot of buzz and has a loyal following of true believers, but is too far out of the mainstream and a little too kooky to attract many voters outside that base of true believers.

Right, okay. I liked Bruno, though I felt sorry for Ron Paul. What do you think of Ron Paul’s positions?

Well, I consider that all polls should be taken with a grain of salt, including the Rasmussen poll. Saying that, there are many indicators that show him gaining support. I don’t know what your political beliefs are, but don’t you think that Ron Paul is head and shoulders above all the other GOP candidates? By the way, the hurdle is getting through the primaries. In the general election, I believe Ron Paul will get the most support. Palin is a moron, Romney is a corporate tool (also Romneycare is a carbon copy of Obamacare, so he will lose support there), Jindal is a nobody, and Gingrich has had his day (I don’t think he is seriously considering running anyway.

If republican voters look at this field of candidates in 2011 and 2012 and again pick somebody other than Ron Paul, I will spend every minute of the rest of my life working to destroy the Republican Party by any means at my disposal. (That may be a little over the top but I can’t believe people would be that fucking stupid as to think Palin or Romney is a better candidate than Ron Paul).

So with all that, why’d he endorse Alaska Senator Don Young for reelection? :slight_smile:

Anyone who thinks the gold standard is a good idea is ipso facto unqualified to lead any modern capitalist country.

Like what?

Why? Apart from the single poll showing him getting a 41% share of the vote.

You may as well start now.

I don’t think he actually wants to win. In a way, he is betraying his principles by not being willing to make any of the compromises necessary to win.

Ron Paul is looking strong right now because it’s two years before the election. This is the time when true believers predominate. The mainstream crowd will start coming back in as the actual election approaches and will bring up the numbers for more mainstream candidates.

Paul’s main appeal is to people who are frustrated with both main parties. Paul may be strong in this demographic but it’s a weak demographic. Look at these figures:

1948 - Democrats and Republicans collectively received 94.7% of the votes.
1968 - Democrats and Republicans collectively received 86.1% of the votes.
1980 - Democrats and Republicans collectively received 91.7% of the votes.
1992 - Democrats and Republicans collectively received 80.5% of the votes.
1996 - Democrats and Republicans collectively received 89.9% of the votes.

And these were the recent Presidential elections where the two main parties got the worst results.

Paul’s supporters love him because he’s running against the two big parties even if he’s nominally a Republican. But the bottom line is you can’t get elected President if your base is outside of either of the two big parties. If Paul gets serious about winning and starts running as a Republican candidate competing against the Democrats, his base will abandon him.

This. Ron Paul might do decently well among Republican voters now, but if he was actually nominated by the Republican party or otherwise ended up as a top-3 contender for the presidential election, that would lead to people actually educate themselves about him and his positions. At that point, the amount of support he has would shrink to the lunatic fringe.

His popularity with the right rests on his obscurity. Losing that, he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell.

I’d be lying if I said I read all those links, so take my remarks with a grain of salt.
Ron Paul cannot balance the budget. He wants to cut taxes, and he wants dramatic cuts to our entitlement programs and military. However, he is going to alienate a lot of people.

Seniors were one of the few groups who favored McCain over Obama. When Ron Paul is on record wanting to abolish social security and medicare, he can easily lose the senior vote.

The concept that Obama’s economic policies are pure folly opposed by all economists is not true either. The worlds economists are not all lined up behind Ron Paul. This link showed 66% of economists polled preferred Obama over McCain. I have no idea how they feel about Paul, but this myth that the GOP and libertarians have a lock on economics is not remotely true.

http://econ4obama.blogspot.com/

Paul also (I believe) supports the gold standard and opposes ‘printing money’. However getting off the gold standard and printing money may have helped us get out of the first great depression. Asking the US to go on the gold standard, stop deficit spending during a recession, eliminating all entitlement programs, eliminate the federal reserve, etc. are not going to go over well with most economists IMO.

His foreign policy stance is probably the most sane of the GOP in the sense that he isn’t suffering from a martyr complex (they hate us for our freedoms, etc). But he still doesn’t seem to understand the dynamics of the situation. As far as ‘just leaving the area’, that sounds good now but during the cold war there was a risk of too many states with natural resources going to the USSR.

Paul is going to alienate the elderly (due to his stance on entitlements), military hawks & social conservatives. So the GOP coalition will break down. And he won’t win any votes from the dems either.

Those of us on the left who are disillusioned with Obama are disillusioned that he isn’t liberal enough. We aren’t going to go out and vote for a guy like Paul who wants to more or less abolish the federal government because of it.

Thats like if I said that since the tea party is disillusioned with John McCain (because he isn’t conservative enough) that they will go out and vote for Dennis Kucinich.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Social_Security.htm

Howard Dean is also a doctor. He supports medicare for all.

My point is that I really don’t see Paul winning a real coalition when people really understand what he stands for. He is a rabid ideologue, and this country needs a pragmatist in charge.

“Ron Paul is a million times smarter than Barack Obama.”

Seriously? Like his policies or not, Obama is an extremely intelligent, pragmatic person.

He needs to do what they did with Palin and rarely/never give interviews before the election so nobody can figure this out though.

However there is a huge cyberspace trail of Paul, and it’ll only take a few months for the public to realize what he stands for. He has almost no pragmatism in him, it is all ideology.

Ron who? Oh the guy all the stoners were hoping would be president…

Yeah good luck with that.