Well, maybe for a little while, but schisms within the Church were commonplace and then there was that whole Reformation thing…
…regarding John 6:70, both the construction in Greek and the technical use of διάβολος (diabolos) indicate that the one devil is in view. To object to the translation “the devil” because it thus equates Judas with Satan does not take into consideration that Jesus often spoke figuratively (e.g., “destroy this temple” [John 2:19]; “he [John the Baptist] is Elijah” [Matt 11:14]), even equating Peter with the devil on one occasion (Mark 8:33). According to ExSyn 249, “A curious phenomenon has occurred in the English Bible with reference to one particular monadic noun, διάβολος. The KJV translates both διάβολος and δαιμόνιον as ‘devil.’ Thus in the AV translators’ minds, ‘devil’ was not a monadic noun. Modern translations have correctly rendered δαιμόνιον as ‘demon’ and have, for the most part, recognized that διάβολος is monadic (cf., e.g., 1 Pet 5:8; Rev 20:2). But in John 6:70 modern translations have fallen into the error of the King James translators. The KJV has ‘one of you is a devil.’ So does the RSV, NRSV, ASV, NIV, NKJV, and the JB [Jerusalem Bible]. Yet there is only one devil…The legacy of the KJV still lives on, then, even in places where it ought not.”
120 sn At least six explanations for the name Iscariot have been proposed, but it is probably transliterated Hebrew with the meaning “man of Kerioth” (there are at least two villages that had that name). See D. A. Carson, John, 304.
Could it be a problem with translating from one language to another and then to another?
Was Peter a devil too? Was there one Devil or many devils?
I prefer to not rely on the KJV.
And man’s study of God’s creation is fundamentally seriously and fatally flawed as pointed out in the very instructions that God who created everything tells us.
Men, demons and God are ‘gods’ in a general sense, with the ability to create life, create reality and be worshiped. God Himself declares this.
Like you do when you study science. God is very different, as He will show you, again if you let Him.
God states otherwise, if you don’t mind I’ll go with God
The next verse:
If you are taught in the ways of the world I agree it would appear to one that what you state is true. God is willing to teach us the truth, instead of the lies that man calls facts.
And kanicbird drives another thread right into the ground, using nothing more than his boundless skill at mistaking belief for fact.
I did no such thing. Go back and read each word, then put them together into a complete sentence. Sound them out if you have to. There is no apology or excuse in there.
Stranger
Is it “mistake”? Or is it deliberate? Meh whatever. I know what I believe. I know what I don’t believe. Maybe I should just let it be.
In short No, man is not capable of this as the Word is God.
There are fallen angels that have taken human bodies, I believe this scripture speaks to that:
I believe the above was revealed by the Holy Spirit as:
Jude 1:6 (New International Version)
6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority (in the heavenly places) but abandoned their own home (spiritual body and dwelling place, to be born into human bodies)—these he has kept in darkness (demons don’t know they are demons, but they have their demonic nature), bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day (they can not figure out they are demons until revealed by the great and terrible day of the Lord).
For Judas is it said:
It is that it would have been better for him if he never became human, but remained a demon in a spiritual body.
Scripture can not be broken (John 10:35), and Jesus clearly states only one is a devil. Peter, before receiving the Holy Spirit was a bit prideful IMHO trying to do the Lord’s work in his own strength, as such he gave the devil a foothold (Eph 4:27), Satan gained control of part of Peter through Peter’s pride.
That is your choice, the scriptures speak to the mind while the Word speaks to the heart. I don’t particularly like the KJV due to old English style myself.
Well, one of those two things is fatally flawed… (Ooh, on-topic comment!)
Ah. FYI, nobody uses that ‘general sense’. Words have, like, meaning and stuff.
You don’t know the first thing about studying science. Heck, I’m surprised you can spell it!
And do you know what the difference is between “Follow my instructions - I instruct you to believe in me - and if you follow my instructions, you’ll believe in me” and “Follow my instructions - I instruct you to believe in me - and if you follow my instructions, you’ll believe in me - and this is totally different from when you stupidly believe in other things contrary to evidence just because they said to believe in them?”
“Hi! I’m the bible, and I was written by God. You know it’s true because I just said so. I’m also not lying. You can know that’s true because I just said that too, and you know it wasn’t a lie, because I was written by God, and he doesn’t lie! Trust me! And remember - there’s nothing circular at all about this logic. (You know it’s true because I’m not lying - I said so!) Oh, and I state otherwise.”
I don’t mind if you go with that-which-you-have-decided-is-God. If I minded every irrational thing somebody on the internet said or did, I’d go insane!
Nothing.
Ah, well, that’s not a quote from Jesus, now, is it? That’s just the author’s opinion. Not to say it’s a real surprise, given that all the disciples (and their followers) were probably pretty pissed off at Judas - but that’s no proof that it’s a correct interpretation on their part.
The word “truth” has meaning too, you know. It’s not “whatever opinions kanicbird has thought up.”
John the Baptist is Elijah, it is not figurative at all, the exact same soul of Elijah is the soul of John the Baptist.
Also the temple was destroyed, totally useless as a temple from that point on, every part of it has been thrown down. The new temple is the body of Christ, which is in every believer.
Nice of you to parenthsize the parts you were making up whole cloth.
*International Standard Version (©2008)
But turning and looking at his disciples, Jesus rebuked Peter, saying, “Get behind me, Satan, because you’re not thinking God’s thoughts but human thoughts!”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But turning around and seeing His disciples, He rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus turned, looked at his disciples, and objected to what Peter said. Jesus said, “Get out of my way, Satan! You aren’t thinking the way God thinks but the way humans think.”
King James Bible
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
American King James Version
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get you behind me, Satan: for you mind not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.*
Guilty as charged. Not just any old devil, but THE devil. :eek:
Yes you can cast out a demon that exact way, that does not mean you are calling the person a devil, but the demon possessing him a devil.
In casting out demons Jesus talks directly to them.
OK, I got it now. Everything is literal when you want it to be. If it suits your purpose better, then it is not literal.
This “discussion” is over.
This “discussion” is over.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hear that
If I quoted it, it’s true.
The real kicker here is, you have not -and cannot- make a sound argument that the text of the bible itself comes from the spirit of God. The reason for this is because we cannot trust the book to verify its own accuracy except by comparison to other, objectively verifiable things. And there is no way to objectively verifiy Spirit of Godness.
There are numerous claims of subjective verifications, when people got good feelings or visions or hallucinations or whatever, but those are useless for determining actual truth, since they’re not objectively verifiable. And worse, you cannot accurately trace and determine the cause or source of these feelings, so they’re not really even subjective verifications. You’ve decided that they’re from God…but you might as well believe a complete stranger who walks up and tells you he’s God. You have as much reason to trust him as you have to trust your own guesses as to the causes of your ‘experiences’ and beliefs.
By the way, I’m God. Send me tithing.
I have no desire to boast about my multiple degrees in the sciences, but I would only say that they would easily surpass most of the posters here by quite a bit. I do count them all rubbish however, as man’s view of the world is so totally in error there is no hope for man outside of the grace God offers us through His Son Jesus. In Him alone will I boast.
While that is impossible with man, nothing is impossible for God. The Word is God. One day every knee will bow and every tongue proclaim that Jesus is Lord, so you will get your objectiveness. Until then God wants you to know Him personally, as such He does not want you to come to Him objectively, but personally.
Outside of God man does not know what truth is, hint objectively verifiable means nothing. Do you know your parents objectively or personally?
Again you know not the power nor the truth of God, the gifts of discernment He offers. You sound as foolish and ignorant in your posting and I sound to you, though I am schooled in your reality and know it is a deception.
You have no idea of what you speak or to put it in the Word of God:
I can tell you that God is so real and right infront of you at all times, but you are blinded to Him as He states:
May God open your eyes and ears.
If you actually have multiple degrees in the sciences I wouldn’t boast about them either. You’ve obviously misunderstood practically everything about them.
If you actually have a degree in any hard science and think the world is 5000 years old, you should burn your diploma and the school that was incompetent enough to let you wear a gown should have its accreditation challenged.
Since they’re rubbish, what is it to you whether other people know about them or not.
What sciences do you have degrees in?