Is the Bible pretty much fatally flawed?

So…massive cognitive dissonance, then? You know that science is nothing more than the effort to accurately describe reality. You know that is has systems in place that make the possibility of widespread error on points like the age of the earth or evolution ridiculously unlikely at this point. You know that if reality is even remotely close to real, that the bible isn’t remotely close to accurate in its descriptions of reality.

You even know that personal subjective experiences are utterly untrustworthy as evidence, and that only a complete moron would trust a book - or spirit - that said “I’m God/God-sent. Trust me!”

Frankly, nah. If you had such awareness and knowledge, you have expunged it to make room for your irrational and unsubstantiated theories. You are thus absolutely correct that any science degrees you have are now rubbish, becuase you no longer have the knowledge and abilities that they state you possess. You can now boast only in your own ego, and your own imaginings.

After god has come out and slaughtered all those who will not bow their knee and proclaim his soverignty, then sure, there will be objective evidence and reason for rational people to believe in him. Until then, it is impossible to come to know him. You can come to know the inside of your own imagination…but without outside evidence, there is no way whatsoever to discern the voice of God (should it exist) from the voice of the Devil (should it exist) or from the voice of your own overactive imagination (which we know exists)

And more to the point, you still can’t verify that the text of the bible has any supernatural origins whatsoever, especially not by references to its own text. You cannot verify its godliness objectively or personally - because ‘personal’ verifications are more likely your subconscious telling you what you want to hear than some homonculous doing the same.

Your first sentence is nonsense - I know what truth is; I can look it up in the dictionary and everything. You might try that sometime.

I know my parents from objective evidence. Every interaction I have had with them was theoriecally observable by third parties (and often were actually observed by third parties). My parents have never interacted with me via ‘personal’ evidentiary methods like sending me emotions, visions, dreams, or hallucinations.

Oh, I know I sound like a fool to you; most people sound like fools to holocaust deniers on that subect too. The thing is, of course, that I have facts and reality backing me up, and you have…selected quotes from an old book of doubtful veracity.

You mean, to put in the words of that book that you cannot possibly know is the Word of God, of course.

And nobody’s saying that the bible isn’t saying it’s true. We’re just quite reasonably doubting its credibility. Which is pretty shaky, what with the contradictions with observable reality, and the internal contadictions, and all that.

Mm-hmm. I have an invisible dragon in my [nonexistent] garage too. We’re both special!

In the astronomically unlikely event there’s this invisible dude standing in front of me at all times (even when I’m showering? Ewwwww), then I sincerely hope if he does one day make himself visible to me, he makes himself visible to everyone else too. Because if it’s just me, I’ll know I’ve gone insane. It’s a sure sign, you see.

And dang, if he was visible and in front of me at all times, it’d make driving really unsafe. I couldn’t see where I was going!

Yeah right. :rolleyes:

I don’t think the Bible is flawed if you see it for what it is. A book written by ancient men. The story of Jesus is interesting in it’s philosophy just as other similar stories from other religions. I think it fails as a source of authority. Regardless of how little or how much authority people imagine the Bible has ultimately they must choose a course and take responsibility for those choices and face the consequences.

I’m curious about where these degrees came from but ultimately it doesn’t matter. With the most prestigious degree on your wall from the most prestigious school you’d still be wrong.

Actually, his posts are perfect examples of what I put forth in the OP.

Even if we accept that may be true, the obvious fact remains that many people who do see the Bible as the word of God and are equally certain the Holy Spirit has enlightened them to see the truth. can’t agree with each other on the details. I think that says something about the nature of inspiration and of the Holy Spirit even if we allow it’s real. I’m not sure where man’s desperate need to know for sure came from but I think an honest answer is, we just don’t know with the certainty folks claim.

and as I just noted, even the ones that do think so can’t agree on what the Holy Spirit taught them.
Here’s the kicker for me. There’s nothing in the Bible itself that claims the things about it that fundamentalist Christians do. There are no passages or prophecies indicating it was ever God’s plan to have one authoritative compilation of books as a guide to living and salvation. All the available evidence points to a different conclusion. Why wouldn’t we expect a God who moved people to write down their best understanding of his will to move people throughout out the ages and on every continent where men sought to unravel life’s mysteries?
There is Biblical support for that idea. One final authoritative compilation of scripture? Not so much.

Interesting way of putting it. Since we know that people who believe the Bible is the word of God and the Holy Spirit guides them in understanding it, still can’t agree with each other, I’d say flaw is correct term. If Truth matters, and actually has a chance of setting us free the evidence ought to matter more than the traditions or religious dogma passed on by men that really don’t hold up to scrutiny and basic reasoning.

No, it only testifies to our existence.

Like he “proved” himself to you, right? Thats pretty subjective.

I’m going to assume that these degrees are as made up as your scriptural ideas, Aslan.

I can only assume you’ve had a stroke since you acquired them.

So, you’re a man and thus, according to your own statement, your world view is totally in error.

God states ‘lean not on your own understanding’. God does not work how we would expect Him to, but He does work His way. And His way is far more proof then any proof man can come up with. I can not make you understand the scriptures, but I can tell you that you can not understand them the way you expect to - that can not work (so the answer to the OP is no, what you are asking for can not exist).

I gave you some of what has been revealed to me, not so you take my word for it, but hopefully God will use that to open your mind to there are other ways of looking at reality, equally as valid, actually far more valid, then the reality you have been taught and are so sure your way is the only way.

When the people who claim the Holy Spirit has revealed God’s Truth to them start presenting some kind of consistent message that show they value the truth over man’s religious tradition your words here will mean something.

You have to forgive kanicbird and leave him to his own (what seems to be) delusions, for some reason he has to think and believe that he is the supreme translator of all scripture and he alone knows what God wants. His God is a different god then any other person has, so if he sees the moon is made of green cheese then it must be. If it helps him fine but I doubt that anyone else buys into his translations.

Why would you think you would see a consistent message when God basically says you are not getting that till you follow my instructions?

All you will get is the same apparent contradictions you see in the Bible. As the Word is God, Who is Jesus Christ, and the church (spirit filled believers) are the body of Christ - as such they are the same thing. Again you are trying to lean on your own understanding and ignore the instructions God set forth.

:eek:

Take that back!!!

Do NOT, in any way, shape, or form, associate the Great Lion–noble, wise, brave, compassionate, and ten thousand other good adjectives I won’t list here–with kanicbird.

If kanicbird landed in Narnia’s world, he’d be turned into a dragon on, like, day 4. I’m not sure he’d ever turn back.

If by “Word” you mean the Bible then telling us the “Word” will be unclear until we understand the “Word” is useless advice.
If by the “Word” you mean some voice you hear in your head, well…let’s just say that we can’t hear what voices you hear, and you have no way of knowing what voices others hear.

Another way of looking at this is once someone is born again, they learn as a child, till they are spiritually mature. Are you expecting a consistent message from a first grader, a sixth grader and a twelfth grader? Each learns what they need to in their stage of development. Is a first grader wrong because he does not know about taking a square root?

By looking at this group from the outside you will see all people who claim to have the Holy Spirit, but only with the Holy Spirit’s revelation you will see that they are in different grades, different levels of development, and different disciplines.

Probably others wouldn’t agree on the details{part of my point actually} but there are still plenty of people who see the Bible as the authoritative Word of God, while dismissing other so called Holy writings. It bugs me that people who claim to value truth reject clear evidence and basic reasoning skills in order to elevate a religious tradition.

Czarcasm the Word is God.

No I wouldn’t expect levels of insight and knowledge to be consistent in that kind of group. I would expect an adult on any spiritual level to admit they didn’t know rather than claim divinely inspired knowledge and be so inconsistent. I believe the Bible refers to that as humility.

I’m aware that people are individuals and grow differently. I expect them to be inconsistent. I also expect them to recognize their inconstancy and take that into account when they start claiming divine revelation showed them the truth.

I’d expect there wouldn’t be inconsistency in the truth.

Well in the physical world we have inconsistencies also. Ask several people what color is the sky you may get:
1 - Blue
2 - Orange
3 - Black
4 - I don’t know
5 - It depends on time of day and atmospheric conditions

To a objective observer they would seem inconsistent, but with revelation of who those people are you find:
1 - Is a person in elementary school
2 - is looking at the sky at sunset on a cloudy day
3 - is looking at the sky at night
4 - is a 1 yr old
5 - is a technically minded college student.

And you can see how these inconsistencies are not as the appear, and all are true.