You realize that the exact same claim can be made of the Koran, or the Book of Mormon, or the Vedas, or the Eddas, right?
For all who seek God with all their heart, all paths eventually lead to God through Jesus Christ.
Comon KB. You know the answer to that. It’s tradition and indoctrination. Most people including most Christians know very little about the Bible. They are taught to believe so they believe. That’s the same reason other religions and millions of people hold different holy books so highly.
I hold the Bible is high esteem but it’s just a book. I believe people can and do have profound experiences studying the Bible or going to church. I think the mistake is they attach that experience to a specific book or a specific denomination . Whatever insight, inspiration, or revelation is, it springs from within. The Bible, the Koran, the Book of Morom, The Gita, or other revered “sacred” writings are food for thought but the true teacher, the true authority , is within.
I don’t deny there is tradition and indoctrination, actually most people just settle there, which is only of man, not God. But there is a far higher level that is revealed, one that comes only from a relationship between God and that person, it does away with all traditions and shatters the bonds of indoctrination.
This is why John wrote:
Yeah, all of them except the ones that don’t. Millions of .Muslims Hindus, Buddhists, pagans, et al, would disagree.
[QUOTE]
It also shatters the need to hold the Bible as something it was never intended to be.
If I have faith that the Holy Spirit will guide me into all truth then I can study the Bible as just a book and study other books as well, trusting the HS to help me discern the truth from man’s tradition. I won’t always be right because like other men, I have my own hurdles to overcome, but at least I’ve claimed responsibility for my own journey and my own relationship with God, and I’ve placed my trust in the right place.
I humbly request that you quit posting in this thread if all you intend to do is make claims that pretty much force other posters to openly question your sanity.
Thank you.
Okay party pooper. Who’s going to provide the high quality gibberish now?
This WAS the guy who once told an atheist to pray to Jesus, IIRC.
I wouldn’t call it gibberish. What he writes, certainly. I mean the guy is certifiable, but he is absolutely convinced that he is right. There is no grey in his world. When we argue with him we look like children in comparison. We seem all over the place in our arguments. All our arguments boil down to ‘we don’t know’ because there is no proof that there isn’t a god. How do you prove that something doesn’t exist that is equivalent to the MPU or the flying spaghetti monster?
I imagine this absolute certainty is what appeals to the group of people who are devoutly religious. They don’t have to think about stuff. They know it is real because it says so in this book and others who have read the book are so certain it is true, then who am I to doubt? It doesn’t hurt this image in that he can post a link or two from the bible that supports, at least superficially, whatever claim he is making at the moment. That it is all built on a house of cards isn’t relevant. He is certain, he can drop bible references that support his view, and that appeals to a certain group of people. Maybe not here, but those, in their millions, who support those preachers in their crystal palaces, it probably does.
Frankly, it scares the crap out of me that there are people who are so certain of things that are so obviously fantasy.
And mind you, this wasn’t a case of trying to witness-this was simply someone who was just interested in going to church with a friend to see what it was all about-and he suggested writing a letter to Jesus. Uhhhh…hello, a little logic problem here.
And you waited until post #127 to say this?
Um yeah, I officially apologize to KB A lot of his posts are not gibberish and we have some decent exchanges. I think if you follow his posts though you will see that he is all over place as well in the sense that because of circular logic he regularly contradicts himself IMO.
When logic is getting close to finding a flaw there’s always “If you don’t have the spirit you can’t understand that apparent contradictions are not really contradictions.” No point in arguing with that.
Thanks for the clarification.
I don’t have a comment; that just bears repeating.
Using the blind men and the elephant… Sometimes I think we’re all blind and trying to grab out for truth. (A piece of the elephant.) And I’m convinced that many people are holding on to things that aren’t actually part of the elephant and claiming they are. And none of us actually have any concept of what an elephant is. And sometimes I think that the only real difference between an unbeliever and a believer is that believers are convinced that there is an elephant. (ie. that there is a connection between these things that otherwise appear to be contradictions. I don’t think we always know what it is, so we can’t explain away the apparent contradiction.) Where an unbeliever having no concept of elephant, sees only contradiction.
Then again. I’ve seen times when they can’t or won’t accept explanations for things I think are simple concepts. take the list someone linked to earlier http://www.thinkatheist.com/notes/10…s_in_the_Bible
This one is explained with simple english. If you actually read it. Often I think they don’t. The context clearly states, “by twos, the male and the female,” (i.e. a single pair.) of clean animals, by sevens, the male and the female, (i.e. seven pairs.) and entering the ark by twos, the male and the female, (once again, by pairs.) How can they understand a more complex concept like faith vs. works if they can’t properly parse a simple english sentence?
And most of the rest are like asking a historian why he has two different accounts of the same battle, since they disagree on how many people attended. And it’s a good argument against anyone who claims the bible is unerring, but most of the rest of us don’t find it the problem they think we should.
This is a bit of a nit-pick, but the earth is very nearly flat. It only varies from flat by 4 inches in a mile. That’s less than one part in 17000. Local variations completely swamp the data signal you’re looking for on that one. So, taking the world as flat on a small scale doesn’t bring up a contradiction. (and by small scale, I still mean a thousand miles or more.)
Anyway, the debate seems in good hands with you. I really have no problems with what you say. Was just looking for clarification.
If this is true then you cannot trust your interpretation of God’s word, since that is also ‘man’s study’.
In short your worldview is self refuting.
If you cannot rely on your own autonomy then you have no basis for believing anything, since you need to believe that your own sensory apparatus is reliable in order to discern what scripture is and what it means.
Your worldview is contradictory and self refuting and thus incoherent.
I think you should start a new thread with this request in the OP. I would, but you’re a better writer than I am.
It depends- was he suggesting the atheist pray/write a letter to Jesus as an act of personal piety or as an experiment to see if he got a response? If the former- then, yeah, that doesn’t make sense. If the latter, then it’s not a bad idea.
Mostly the guy was asking about going to church to socialize. Here is kanicbird’s response:
(I think it was the part where he says, “Let Him know you are an atheist”…that just made me go :dubious:)
Years ago I asked, with all sincerity for Jesus to enter my heart. Nothing happened. Your mileage may vary.
Actually, that was one of his more coherent & sensible discourses.