Hi, I’ve been browsing these boards for a few months but never posted. I’m convinced that Jesus lived and was the Son of God and all, but I really don’t know where to go from there. There are so many denominations out there. I’m now a freshman in college and more able to investigate things on my own. I went to a “fundamentalist” type church some this summer. But usually found it insulting, and it was really hard to digest some of it. Previously, my only church experience was Lutheran sunday school for a short time in elementary school. I grew up always believing in the Christian God, but never really thought about it, nor discussed it. This summer is when I looked into it. By reading books, discussions, debates, etc. I believe that Christianity is a valid belief system. Enough of my life story…
I have a few questions, mainly regarding Catholicism. Currently my reasoning is that the Catholic Church has the strongest argument when it comes to claiming to be the “right” Christianity. I read a quote somewhere that went something along the lines of, “To know Christian history is to cease to be a Protestant.” Is that accurate? Site such as this one seem to give a pretty convincing argument. Any discussion on this is welcome. If this has already been addressed in another thread I apologize. Thank you…
If there is one, true Christian faith, why did the Orthodox and Protestants split?
Be careful about absolute certainity in religion (or much of anything else, for that matter).
May your searching bring you peace.
Mine did.
Well, from my understanding, Protestantism began when certain members, Luther, etc., of the Catholic Church wanted reform, and ended up splitting off entirely from Rome. I believe Orthdoxy came from a schizm in 1054. One of the main points being a concern over apostolic succession and the head of the Church. This is the kind of stuff I;m looking to find out Is it reasonable to believe that the doctrines of sola fide and sola scriptura, which supposedly came about during the Reformation, are legit? Can they be traced back to early Christian history?
I’m a Catholic (and I’d probably get booted out for saying this), but I believe that the one true church is the one that feels right to you.
I believe that God and the SDMB have the same basic rule – “Don’t be a jerk”. I don’t think he (or she) really cares which church (if any) you attend as long as you are a good person.
I don’t agree with everything Catholicism professes, however, when I leave Mass on Sunday, I leave the Church with a feeling of great inner peace, I feel centered and ready to face the coming week. I can’t explain why.
Try out a bunch of different churches, when you find the one that leaves you feeling that way, then you’ll know you’ve found the one “true” church.
Best of luck in your search…
Of course, the Protestants would hold that the church needed to be reformed because it had strayed from God’s word. And while it is true that the Orthodox and Catholics split in 1054 and that the primacy of the papacy (rather than Apostolic Succession, per se) was one of the crucial points of dispute, the Orthodox would, of course, maintain that it was the Catholics who strayed.
Certainly, the RCC holds that it does the best job of carrying on the Word of God, but then what would you expect them to say? “Hey, we’re not really that close, but boy do we have great ceremonies?”
Cardinal Ratzinger would bite ten-penny nails in two to hear a Catholic suggest this, but I would think that your best bet would be to look around to see which denominations speak to you most clearly about God. John Henry Newman came to Catholicism based on his understanding of Apostolic Succession, but the arguments that persuaded him failed to persuade the rest of his Oxford associates, so the case is not one of open-and-shut clarity.
On the other hand, for a look at Catholicism while on campus, you might want to check out his namesake organization at the Newman Center. They should be able to answer many of your questions (although local chapters can always vary in quality).
Your general questions in the OP are pretty far-reaching. If you want to narrow them down a bit, I am willing to present the RC version of the beliefs, but I’m not quite up to debating “The RCC Against All Comers” as an open-ended discussion.
disclaimer: there are a whole bunch of folks IRL and here who feel such doctrinal issues are of great import. I will leave it to them to explain why.
For me:
Religion should reflect spirituality, not law.
shamrock227, I understand that stance. However, I don’ t think it would be right of me to go out look for a religion or church to match my current prefrences just because I don’t want to change my behavior.
I’m far from an expert, but having read Crossing The Threshold of Hope by John Paul II I don’t think the Pope comes right out and says this. However, I think he does say that the only way to salvation is through the Church which is the Body of Christ.
Question-have you ever been to a Catholic Mass? It can be quite beautiful, and the sermons usually make me think.
Plus, we get wafers and booze.
Seriously, I’m a pretty lapsed Catholic with Unitarian Universalist leanings, but I still consider myself Catholic by culture and just because I can’t totally get away from it. It’s a beautiful religion-like anything, it has its good points and its bad points.
I noticed you didn’t like Fundamentalist college. A Catholic college is usually pretty rigorous, academically speaking (although you can’t see it from my spelling!), and Jesuit schools in particular are very scholarly.
I say take a look into Catholicism and take it from there.
Good luck! Now, go in peace to love and serve the Lord.
As an atheist, I usually don’t have much positive to say about religion, but I can back up Guin on one point. Catholicism is certainly scholarly. They have the strongest intellectual tradition of any Christian denomination. Augustine and Aquinas are the big guns, of course. I speculate here, but I think the absense of sola scriptura in Catholicism makes them more likely to think about the world and analyze it from a somewhat objective viewpoint. All the well-known arguments for the existence of god come from Catholic thinkers. And I assure you that Bishop Berkeley was Anglican, not Catholic.
The Catholic Church is a wonderful organization that does so much charitable work in this world. They almost single-handedly preserved knowledge both spiritual and secular through the medieval period, and if not for the libraries found in southern Spain after the Reconquista they might have been the only institution ensuring that knowledge from the classical era was not lost. They are the cream of the crop. If I were to convert to Christianity, I’d go Catholic. As an atheist, I even paid $10 more than I had to on a bible for reference, just to make sure I had all their “extra” books in it (or should I say, I paid that extra to get one that wasn’t unjustly cut up and edited by Martin Luther.) I assure you I’m not being sarcastic. To the critical philosophical mind, Catholics totally rule, end of story. Since I’m an athiest, that’s either a ringing endorsement or a damning indictment, I’m not sure which.
shamrock227, nice post. I too am Catholic and agree with what you said. “Don’t be a jerk”.
Trom, I am Catholic and my wife is Baptist, we’re on opposite ends of the spectrum. We compromise and try to alternate where we go. I enjoy Catholic mass for it’s spirituality and peacefulness, and Baptist sermons for their real-life applications of the Bible.
Being Catholic I’m biased into thinking we’re right, but I know otherwise. A lot of good comes out of all denominations, and so long as you accept Jesus and follow his message of Love, I think you’ll be alright.
While it’s probably true that the Catholic Church has the most extensive scholarly tradition (and has been around the longest) of any current Christian denomination, that fact doesn’t necessarily make them right, or even “closest to right.” If you hold Scripture to be true, you hold it to be true regardless of who or what believes in it–so when deciding on a church, I think you should examine what the prospective church holds to be true, compare that to what you hold to be true, and go with the church that matches closest to it. That might be the Catholic Church, or it might not, but if you did decide to become Catholic I think it should be because you believe what they believe, not because they’ve got the most extensive history.
That may not have been the answer you were looking for… If you’re wondering which church denomination stems from the original church, I’m not sure there’s a definitive answer for that. There were a lot of early churches; Paul in particular started several, but for a long time the individual churches “grew up” without any sort of central authority. The earliest attempt at a central authority that I know of was the Council of Nicaea, convened by Constantine in 325 (I think). That’s almost 300 years after the traditionally-accepted death of Christ, and during that time beliefs varied from city to city. The Council of Nicaea itself was convened in part in order to address a doctrinal question about whether or not Jesus was eternal, like God, as opposed to being created at some point in time by God. The Council issued a creed stating that Christ was eternal, of the same substance as God, but even this didn’t settle the debate, and that’s just on the subject of the nature of Jesus before the creation of the world.
So it’s incorrect to refer to “the” church, as there were several; the church we know today at the “Catholic” (or “universal”) church is obviously the one that more or less became the main Christian church, but it wasn’t necessarily so from the beginning. Even then, the issue I mentioned before is still there: this church may have become the prominent one, but that doesn’t in itself necessitate that it’s the right one. Whether or not a church is “right” depends on how closely it’s doctrine matches that of some objective truth, but since it’s probably impossible for us to know the exact nature of that objective truth (for lots of reasons), the best you can do–as has been pointed out–is study for yourself what you think is true, and if you’re going to join a church, compare their beliefs to yours.
Catholic here. If you’re looking for historical institutional continuity, the Catholic and Orthodox flavours of Christianity would have the best claims, but perhaps that’s not the most important thing. Probably you want to find a religious tradition and community that speaks to you about good in language that you can appreciate, and in a way that rings true. It’s not so much a question of looking for a church that doesn’t require you to change your behaviour as of looking for a church whose thinking appeals to you. A commitment to that church may or may not require you to change your behaviour.
I’d suggest you start by exploring the tradition you were brought up in or are most familiar with and, if you don’t find it satisfying, identify those aspects of it which do appeal to you and look towards another tradition which preserves those aspects but offers something more.
This kind of quest is likely to lead you to one of the broader churches – Roman Catholics, Anglicans, broad church Protestants – since they accommodate different ways of thinking and speaking about God. But who knows?
Well-read Anglican here. I don’t believe in Catholic-bashing, and will usually speak up when somebody is speaking falsehoods about Catholicism. But I’ll second Tom~'s offer, giving the Anglican POV.
It’s important to note that there have been differences of opinion within Christianity since effectively Day One – the Ebionites being the first splinter group I know of. The Jacobite and Coptic Churches do not adhere to the Chalcedonian definitions of the Trinity and Christ’s nature that all Orthodox and Catholics and most Protestants think are essential to a true understanding of Christianity.
And I’d have to echo Tom’s point that from the Orthodox perspective, accretions of dogma and centralization of power contrary to the Apostolic intentions meant that the Catholic Church diverged from orthodox belief, the various splits (1054 being only the first long-duration mutual excommunication, with others before and after) were inevitable. I’m not necessarily selling that POV, but emphasizing that, contrary to Roman-church propaganda, there’s another way of looking at “what the One True Church is.” (I can link to some stuff on Orthodoxy if you wish, as well as Anglican material.)
But, as everyone else seems to concur in saying, the right church for you is the one in which you find spiritual sustenance and a sense of “belonging.” That may be Rome, Canterbury, Constantinople, Methodism, Lutheranism, Assemblage of Godism (there is no useful collective noun for them!), or whatever.
Theology is important; so is worship style; and so is the sense of community. I think we can only help on the first, and give a sense of what the second usually is.
Thank you for the responses everyone. Lately I have been reading lots of Catholic apologetics, which might be (probably) why I’m leaning towards Catholicism. Polycarp… you seem to really know your stuff when it comes to Christian history and philosophy. Normally when I do a search for arguments against Catholicism’s claims to be the One Church, I’m bombarded with Jack Chick tracts and similar lies. I’m sincerely interested in what compels you to be a member of the Anglican Church. I’m not asking for a life story or anything. Websites or recommended readings would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.