Teach me to get infor from Wikipedia.
Although, notice I said it was in association wit the Solstice, not exactly on it.
I’m a good pagan, know when the Solstice is.
I wouldn’t consider the Christmas tree as being associated in any way with the Christian part of Christmas, just the secular holiday/gift/feast tradition part. It’s not religious in any way, pagan or Christian.
In Scandinavia christmas is as old as one can trace any tradition, though it was known as jól. Today the Swedish word for christmas is jul. The party was called “to drink jól”, and main activity was to drink and eat (pig, not turkey, and “cristmas ham” (julskinka) is still the main course on the Scandinavian christmas table).
It was celebrated at midvinter solstice, presumably to celebrate the turning from darker times to lighter times.
In Norse mythology, there was a tree (world axis) called Yggdrasil. It was “always green”, and though referred to in the Poetic Edda for instance as an ash, might originally have been thought of as a spruce (picea); you know, that one is green also in the winter.
In Scandinavia, even after the coming of christianity, at places until the 19th century, there was a tradition to place a spruce outside the home at jól. It was not decorated, and the lower branches were cut for some reason.
Also, in Scandinavian folk lore, there was a strong belief in the brownie (tomte), which looked after the farm, and for whom porridge was put out outside the house in “chistmas” times. It was a dwarf like character, clad in gray, beard etc, about 1900 by Jenny Nyström’s popular art transformed into the red clad old man we know today.
Today, the original eating and drinking is pretty much unchanged. There’s a spruce tree inside instead of outside, and there’s an appreciation for the modern type brownie – Santa (jultomte).
Of course there are pagan traditions here, and in Scandinavia, the ones who actually thinks of Jesus during celebration, during this pagan drinking and eating, are in a very small minority. Of course, there are the occasional crib, and at the top of the tree there’s a star.
It is well known that christianity placed their churches where temples once stood, and placed their festivals at times when people already were celebrating. Very pragmatic, and as you know the spreading of christianity was (is) carried by political pragmatism rather than the sudden realization that “By Jove, they’re right!” Once the king or chief got baptised, the people are “christians”, but the pagan traditions are more difficult to erase.
This is not an attack on christianity or christian traditions, but the pagan foundation for christmas is pretty obvious.
How can you steal a tradition? If I cook ethnic food tonight am I “stealing” someone’s cuisine? Should I give it back?
When people converted (and they weren’t all forced or even political conversions, not that it matters here) should the church have forced people not to give gifts or hang decorations in midwinter on the grounds that they used to do it because of a pagan (or at least non-Christian) holiday? What should they have done to those who did it anyway?
Perhaps those who chose to use that phrase were miffed at the idea of a group of people adapting certain tradtions into their practice, then not handing down their origin such that later generations act as though that particular religion had always had those elements on it’s own?
[SUB]Wow, long sentence, but it’s lucid isn’t it?[/SUB]
Although of course it will still get colder yet before it grows warmer. So let’s reduce the livestock to a sustainable level given our limited fodder, which will give us a massive surplus of perishable meat, and we’ll make that as palatable as we can and chow down on it for a week at least to put flesh on our bones against the hard days to come - hence puddings and haggises and so forth as seasonal treats.
I also incline to the view that we don’t eat eggs in Lent because the Spring is half a season away, and we want to let the laying flocks recruit their numbers as feed is going to become more plentiful. Then Easter comes, everything’s starting to grow, you have plenty of chicks maturing, and can put eggs back on the menu again.
Or I may be completely full of it. 
Until there’s an angel or star on top and plenty of Christian-themed ornaments. 
Malacandra, no eggs during Lent?! No/limited meat, yes, but eggs are a wonderful substitute. And fish are fair “game”.
gigi - eggs were off in lent, together with milk and cheese, in the middle ages, although you could get dispensation if you were sick, pregnant, or working at hard physical labor. I could dig out recipes for fake eggs made of almond paste, suitable for eating during lent, if you like.
Thanks. That, I thought, was one of the reasons for eating pancakes on Shrove Tuesday - kissing your eggs goodbye before the six weeks of abstinence - and why they’re a big deal for Easter Sunday. We were more a “tradition” family than a “big religious observance” one - we had pancakes on Shrove Tuesday and hardly any other time of year, and fish on Good Friday evening (without conspicuously fasting in between), and hot cross buns on Good Friday *and not before, let alone all damn year :rolleyes: *, and boiled eggs for breakfast on the Sunday. Seems to have gone by the board in the last generation, though.
Got it. I was thinking more recently… :o