Let’s put it this way: do you want to win converts, or do you want to burn heretics? Sounds to me like evangelists have nothing on some of you folks when it comes to extreme self-righteousness.
You’re right - those who opposed SSM were ever so civilized about keeping people out of their partners’ hospital rooms, and trying to make sure they couldn’t adopt children, or have any of the numerous rights straight married people do. It was like kicking someone in the teeth, but politely. For all the right reasons.
Fuck you. And I don’t care that this isn’t the Pit - I’ll gladly take a mod warning for that.
So be the crazy fringe minority if it makes you happy. And you are in the minority. Not on SSM, of course, but on this whole wreaking vengeance on the other side things you’ve got going. Most normal people recognize SSM as the right thing to do, but respect that others might not agree. If you aren’t down with that, then why are you even in Great Debates when this issue comes up? Only the Pit can satisfy you given where your head is right now on this issue.
I don’t give a shit whether someone is converted or burning with impotent rage over SSM. I don’t care what you, or anyone else thinks about the subject.
What I want is very simple. State and Federal recognition of SSM as part of the basic definition of Marriage. Whether you’re converted or burned at the stake is entirely up to you.
BTW, there isn’t jack squat that I can say that’s going to trump God’s Word, so let’s not pretend that my actions are going to convert some Bible Thumping Troglodyte.
As an aside, continuing to oppose something does not fit into any standard definition of surrender.
Who is being burned? Who is harmed by SSM legalization and its advocacy? This all sounds like whining from the losing side.
I don’t know what you think “wreaking vengeance” is. Nobody is going around carrying out lynchings. I’m just pointing out that assholes are asshole, no matter how polite they were about denying other peoples’ rights. And that it’s a little rich if they expect to be treated with the utmost care now.
There are several actually but I’ll name just one as you asked. Domestic partnerships do not give you tax protection for inheritance at the federal level but marriage does. That was the while point of the Windsor case.
Is that one sufficient? It saved Edie Windsor hundreds of thousands of dollars.
All I’m asking is, is it okay to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman or is this belief beyond the pale?
What the hell. I’ll give you one more. I’m feeling generous today.
I’m a man in California and was born here. Let’s say I meet a person who is from another country who is here on a student visa and we fall in love. If I am married to them, they don’t face deportation when the visa is up. Not so for a domestic partnership.
If you come back, I can give you some more.
How very concerned of you.
Since this is great debates, respect and civility aren’t just a concern. It’s the rules of the forum.
Its actually not as rare as you might think. Few support anti miscegenation laws but its not unusual for people to still be willing to express opposition to interracial relationships.
So if you are expecting opposition to Ssm to be beyond the pale you’ll be disappointed.
I’d call it denying reality. You are perfectly free to attempt it. I suspect it will work as well as insisting that Romney’s really winning despite what the actual polls say.
And that’s what she means by surrender. Acknowledging reality while still believing what she believes
It’s as okay to believe that gay marriage is wrong as it is to believe that interracial marriage is wrong, in my opinion. Some people still believe that. There’s no sanctions or punishments for beliefs. You might get criticized if you say it – but that’s a risk for saying anything. And criticism isn’t punishment, or harm, or ‘burning at the stake’, etc. It’s just criticism.
A better analogy is interfaith marriages actually
Okay so we aren’t talking about people needing to be fired if they say they don’t support Ssm
No it isn’t. Faith is belief system. Race and sexuality are innate.
I’m not the thought police, I don’t care what you think about SSM, interfaith marriage, interrracial marriage, divorce, adoption, abortion, child pornography or the death penalty. The most I can do about it is to declare my own individual opinion on your stance, if I find your stance reprehensible, I also have the right to shun you, since I have freedom of action.
Once laws and protections are in place (e.g. interracial marriage) it’s Mind over Matter. I don’t mind, because you don’t matter.
If someone proclaims, in their workplace, “interracial marriage is WRONG”, there’s an excellent chance they would be disciplined. In some workplaces, they might even get fired – that can be a pretty hostile statement. Their beliefs don’t matter, but if they’re jerks in the workplace? Jerks in the workplace might get fired.
I don’t see how same-sex marriage would be any different.