Is the lesbian/bi fetish a recent thing?

I have always personally believed that fetishes in general are primarily biological, with only a small environmental component. Admittedly I’m not sure what science says, but it always seemed to me that fetishes are just sexual orientations, thus no different from hetero/homo - sexuality, though perhaps a bit more complex.

Therefore, I must believe in my heart that way back when, lesbian sex aroused many a Renassance man (i.e. a man living during the Renassance, not…), though societal restrictions may have forbid any openness about it, or therefore any evidence to exist today.

I’m not sure, but how much evidence is there for masturbation in ages passed? Whatever the answer, can there be any doubt it existed?

quick disclaimer: just one man’s intuitive notions. I have no clue how the facts stack up.

When u look at the statistic of sexual behaviour u can say that roughly between 5 to 7 % of the human population is gay/lesbian.
Its caused by the hormoon bust that a baby gets 7 weeks after the real conception to much male or female hormones
Asuming that nature always work on the same way u can make the conclusion that lesbian bi relations must have been in the whole human history.
Ancient Chinese and Indian books of love mention it so i hope i answered u Q when i say no its not new

Dear Doc Cathode,
just for you

'Marie, her hair dishevelled over her pale little face, her underlip mutinously jutting out, her tunic off-shoulder and her sash also, fought like a wild thing as Ursula, out of all patience, gripped her by the neck and forced her backwards over the headmistress’s desk, scattering ink and papers…

‘As Pam finally pulled Marie’s tunic down over her black stockinged legs, Miss Holden, pausing only to snatch a cane from the cupboard on the wall, gripped Marie by the hair and, with a strength lent by anger, forced her head down until she was bent nearly double. Then she began thrashing her unmercifully…’

from http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4173776,00.html

Berserk, when you claim to have the definitive answer for a question like “What causes some people to be homosexual” or " How do you cure cancer" you’re supposed to provide a cite so the rest of us can examine the source of your information and determine whether it’s credible. You may want to spell out words like “you” as well. It’s not a rule or anything, but it makes you come across like a young kid (I’m just going to guess you would rather be taken seriously.)
Not a slam, just FYI

:slight_smile:

How come women don’t seem to like looking at gay men as much as the other way around?

Alright, in case anyone really doesn’t understand this: Straight men [Yes, this is a generalization. Live with it] don’t particularly want to see lesbians getting cuddly with each other. What they DO want to be around is two straight women who are so horny and sexually uninhibited that they’re playing sex games with each other (but who really would rather have a man show up for a threesome). I’m not claiming that this is a realistic expectation, but that’s why you call it a fantasy, right? Of course, this may be too deep an explanation in some cases, as some take the the lots of naked chicks and who cares what they’re thinking approach.

I don’t think that this desire is particularly culture dependent. However, I suspect that as lesbianism has become more mainstream and accepted in the last couple decades, many straight men who may feel a bit threatened by this have dealt with the insecurity by joking and/or fetishizing lesbians.

Well, there’s this guy in the Bible named Onan…

I thought that Onan was more about withdrawal method than masterbation. Probably another thread, but any dope on that?

Tossing my two cents in-

Can we please remember this particular remark?

To spring off of this, in both ancient Greece and Rome there is scant evidence for lesbian activity; scant, but existing. However, there was certainly nothing that I think would qualify as a wide spread fetishization of it. By both cultural standards it was considered sick and unhealthy, not something any normal person would like to watch. I’d compare it more to the way most people in western culture look at scat. It happens, but you’d have to be sick, sick, sick to like it.

We have sexually explicit images from both cultures and I, personally, can’t remember any featuring lesbians. I remember plenty with animals, numerous parteners (usually several men) and even little boys, but no lesbians. Not to say that they aren’t out there, but I haven’t seen any and considering both Roman and Greek constructions of sexuality I’m not surprised.

JCHeckler, I’m going to have to disagree with you.

I’d be interested to look at the text you’re drawing this from. The concern and disgust over homosexual and lesbian behavior had little to do with child birth, but focused on the proper ways men and women should behave. It was denounced more for the disruption in the natural roles of active/passive by gender. For a women to pursue sex would make her manly and thus unatural and thoroughly unsuitable for a wife, much less a mother or respectable member of society. Child birth was so strenuously avoided by the upper class that Augustus was forced to legislate benefits to encourage women to have children. I doubt it was just concern over bloodline that shaped Roman views of lesbianism.