I’m glad I served 4 years Navy. It gave me a different outlook on my life. For once I was wholly responsible for my own actions.
If I had to do it again I would, with one huge difference. It would have been ROTC or the academy. Go in as an officer if the opportunity is there.
Mr. Goob: What years? I was on the USS Ranger, 85-89
If your friends are a bunch of hippies, then I would expect that is the cause of the reactions you are recieving. Hippies (really spoiled, sensitive, idealistic young people who emulate certain aspects of '60s hippy culture - tie-die or frumpy Bohemian clothes, listen to jam bands, etc) would probably not take well to military life.
I’ve never been in the military, but from what I’ve seen from friends who have been in the military, the ones who enjoy it tend to be athletic, disciplined, team-player types. Slothful, lazy, whiny people who march to their own drum probably would not enjoy the lifestyle.
Problem is that the military is a lifestyle choice. Like it or not, once you sign up, you go where they say, when they say for however long you signed up. So if you like it, great. If you don’t, it will suck for quite some time.
“Is the military that bad?”
Right up front, I’ll say that I’m a pacifist, and that I don’ think there is any such thing as a “Just War.”
People who serve in the military endure at least some of the following; grueling training, deliberate humilation, isolation, de-programing, re-programing, gruesome and painful injuries, surprise attacks, and arguably the most insulting of all, low pay. Their rewards are; some respect from some people, specialized training they might not anywhere else, and the occasional medal/ribbon/commendation.
I can respect the endurance some military personnel demonstrate. I can admire the cunning, daring, and sacrfice some of them show. I can even understand their modivations, and sympathize with their problems.
However, at some point, those people sat down in sober judgement, and signed a contract where they exchanged many of their liberties for the privilage of dying and killing for money. I am not saying that most people join to kill, or even more than a small and twisted minorty do so. I am saying that the recruiters don’t care what your modivations are. The Military does not care about you. It cares about it’s objectives. To the Military, you are nothing more than a resource. That’s true of private corporations, and it’s true of the Military as well.
It doesn’t matter if your responsabilities aren’t directly combat related. The American Military machine is fueled by blood and all it produces are corpses. Yes, the military has spearheaded the development of many useful technologies, and has been used to provide meaningful security and humanitarian aid (the recent Tsunami and recent hurricanes in the Gulf region as just two examples), but those are situations where the Mlitary happened to be the only tool avilable for the job. We don’t have domestic Federaly administered disastar relief organizations with millions of employees. Our only tool is a hammer, and so all problems look like nails. Our culture doesn’t value science or humatarian efforts for their own sake as highly as it values the illusion of security that a big military provides. If you disagree, look at the U.S. Federal Budget over the last ten years. To be fair though, Social Security dwarfs even miltary spending. At least we priortize keeping old people from dying in misery and poverty.
There are good reason to join the military. Young people who want to protect their liberty and the liberty of their fellow citizens can chose the Military, or nothing. The National Gaurd used to be haven for those people who were uncomfortable, for what private reasons, with participting in foreign wars (or police actions, or excursions, or whatever we’re calling them lately), but who were comfortable with the idea of giving their lives defending their country, providing disastar relief, and other dmoestic endeavors. Sadly, this is no longer the case.
I don’t think that all people in the military are “bad” people, but i do think the military is thoroughly “bad”, and lacks any redeeming qualities. Joining the military is the wrong thing to do, and lots of people do it for right reasons. As much as soildiers are accused (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly) of being victimizers, they are also often victims.
You are just so wrong in so many ways. Please start a debate in **Great Debates ** and keep your broad brush out of IMHO.
If you choose to do so then please just add a link to the new thread here. I will gladly debate you in the correct forum on this subject.
Jim
P.S. I leave myself open to being labeled as a “hippie”, even though I’ve never used drugs, worn tie-dye, or followed the Grateful Dead around on tour. Insulting epithets say more about the person spouting them, than they do about their target.
Feel free to mock my terrible spelling though.
Excuse me, I was illustrating that’s it’s possible for me to tell someone that joining the military is the wrong thing to do without being a hippie, or a religious zealot. I attempted to write a brief argument showing how a reasonable person, I’ll take the liberty to describe myself as reasonable, can feel that way, and not just be a “hippie”, which is what the OP seemed to imply.
ImaginalDisc would be an example of someone who would not enjoy military life.
msmith537, I’m right here. Is there any reason for speaking of me in the third person, other than to make an ad hominem attack, relating to your earlier post, where you paint people who are against the military with a broad brush, which is something I’ve been accused of, and went to great legnths to avoid?
Chill out, hippie.
Is the military that bad? No. I was in the Air Force from 1967 to 1971. The recruiter told me “Join the Air Force and see the world”. So I joined the Air Force and saw 4 years of Texas. But since I was in during the Viet Nam war, I consider that a blessing. I sometimes kick myself in the butt for not staying in for 20 or even 30 years. Regardless of that, going in the military was the smartest thing that I ever did. I grew up in a hurry. And it was worth every minute.
I am going to chime in, even though I was only part time as a reservist. (Army sigs)
I loved it and am going back in – as an officer this time. I was one of those girls that when I said I was in the military people would just about pass out from shock. I am very outspoken and like to question authority. I also do not fit what most people seem to think is the stereotype for an army chick (don’t know where those come from, I met very few stereotypical butchy women in the army).
It can be tough – I was not in good shape when I joined and basic really kicked my a**, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. I wish we were like other countries and had mandatory military service for two years once you turn 18. I think it helps teach a skill or trade, looks impressive on a resume and can really narrow your focus.
I think it’s an excellent option for anyone that maybe isn’t sure what they want to do, but they know they don’t want to do the “same old same old”. As for not having spare time, after the first two weeks I had tons of spare time and lots of buddies to enjoy it with, it felt awesome being a part of something begger than yourself.
I will agree that relationships don’t tend to last. Mine didn’t.
As for enduring – as a “civvie” I have endured sexual assault, watching a friend get killed and various other horrors. There is no “easy way” through life. I would rather make a choice and maybe help policy from the inside.
What other job could I get at 17, almost guaranteed not to be laid off (or fired as long as I wasn’t stupid), didn’t have to buy anything for work (everything was provided), made sure I ate and exercised, got opportunity to travel and regular promotions and pay raises? Not to mention the training (please take a trade you can apply in civvie-land) and education potential. As a PAO I get to go to Washington DC to take a course in public affairs and have the option of going overseas (as a reservist in Canada i get a choice), when else could I ever do that?
My $0.02.
What sigs regiment were you in. Poysyn?
Res EW Squadron here.
Great, just what we need, more narrow people.
If the question “Is the military really that bad?” is asked, one must be prepared for an occasional “yes” answer.
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.
See, I’m with Spiff there. I can understand signing on for the duration of a certain war, or a certain task. Signing for six years, no matter you’re asked to do has terrifying consequences for the people you’re assigned to subdue, and for the soldiers themselves. When the National gaurd beat and hosed civil rights protestors in the 60’s, I’m sure more than one member of the National Guard thought that beating up people for speaking up was a bad idea, but what could they do about it? It jepordizes everyone’s freedom.
I actually agree with Poysyn, this is were I differ from most of the more liberal people on the board. I think it would be good for people to do 2 years of active duty in either the armed services or some scaled up peace corp or job corp.
I don’t actively push for it, but I do think it would be good.
Jim
You just let a single poster change this thread. I asked them to open a new thread to debate the merits of military service.
Despite the title of the OP, the OP was asking for information about joining the military. **ImaginalDisc ** posts seem inappropriate to the thread in that he/she was just slamming the military in a way that was not IMHO. I know I got rebuked for a similar situation many months ago.
Jim
Hey, I slammed the Military as an orgnaization. I made it clear that I wasn’t trying to attack the people who serve. Did you think that people would only say “No, nothing at all?”.
If I violated the bounds of what’s acceptable for IMHO, I hope the moderator will give me a firm tap on the shoulder. jrfranchi, I notice that I, personnaly am getting slammed quit a lot, rather than what I said. Yeah, it is that bad, and I gave some reasons.
English is not my native language, but I think that might have been a question.
BWAHHH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAAAHHHHHHH!! Imaginal, you will get more humiliation and grueling training by pledging a frat. Your frat buddies won’t help you pay for college, either. They’d probably just throw up on you or something, and then out comes the paddle . . .
Now if you excuse me, my–ahem–guardian angel is telling me to go do pushups and scream at hippies in a disciplined manner.
By the way, the pay’s not that bad when you consider the GI Bill and the fact that you get three hots and a cot plus COLA, plus off base housing if you’re married.
And college money. And physical fitness. And the chance to travel all over the world, see beautiful places, and blow them up. Plus chicks dig guys in uniform, you know. Let me tell you, if you put down the military on your application, you get noticed. Oh, and specialized training. And the comraderie. Plus, it pisses longhairs the fuck off, which is pretty cool in and of itself.
Mercenaries fight for money. U.S. military fights for U.S. interests, as varied as they may be. Believe me, if we wanted to fight for money, we’d be pro wrestlers–much more money there, plus you can wear spandex and still no one would have the guts to laugh at you. By the way, on this planet, it’s spelled “motivation” and while it can be used in the plural, most of us use it in the singular.
I resent your slander. It also produces orphans and flaming debris. And if I had tried to fuel my Deuce and a half with blood, those guys at the motor pool would have beaten my ass.
Thanks, now my ears are bleeding. Someone needs to stop using Babel Fish as a spell checker.