I was just wondering…(which is already a problem)… would an essencially non-aggressive country like Canada, or America, or Australia benefit from mandatory military service requirements by all it’s qualified citizens?
The term does not need to be long. A year would do perhaps. You can probably server in or near your home town with weekend leaves occasionally.
People who choose to have a military career can certainly stay on while those who do not will at least gain an appreciation for the life of soldiers.
An added benefit would be that the average IQ of the military force would be somewhat raised, as would it’s social IQ.
This kind of thing seems to work in a few contries - Finland and Israel to name a couple. Admitedly, the last one is more out of necessity.
Of course your right not to serve (as it exists today in North America) would be forefit but in a complex and populous society, many rights are impinged to benefit society in general. Would this type of service be of more benefit than detriment over the long haul?
I’ve never served, but don’t necessarily think it would be an entirely bad thing if I had.
It raises a few problems, the biggest of which is that some people are simply not cut out for any kind of military service. They don’t have the mental toughness to do it. What do we do with them? Force them to stay in boot camp until they manage to make it through? Excuse them from service? Or make them serve anyway?
Each possibility is a problem.
The second issue is, well, is there really that great a need for that many troops? I mean these people have to be paid, that is a LOT of paid soldiers. What would we do with them all? It seems highly wasteful.
Let’s face it, the security needs of Israel are far different than those of Canada or the USA.
They do that in Turkey also, and it’s my understanding it’s a joke. Their army is huge, but they have nothing to do. Many of them spend their time doing toll booth type jobs in the middle of nowhere. Where did you get the idea that the military raises your IQ? That’s all we need, more military spending.
I’m an Australian, and I would have to say the idea of mandatory military service wouldn’t work here for a single nanosecond. Take me for example. I have hand-eye coordination bad enough to scare me. My balance is skewed, I’m absent minded and generally not quite in touch with the manifest reality.
OTOH I CAN program, paint miniatures, philosophise, write essays, that sort of thing, with a high level of skill.
There are plenty of people out there like this… physically inept but possessing other, more academic talents. You put me or any of the others through a military service, you’re forcefully wasting a part of their life and that’s inexcusable. I went through 10 years of compulsory sport in Primary/High School. When it was over, I was very very happy. Being in a physically competitive environment doesn’t do me any good, in fact, it just demotes my ability to construct self-esteem. Mandatory military service would have the same effect.
It’s really really funny you should mention this, because a guy I work with just got a letter from the Turkish consulate stating that he had to go do his mandatory military service. Wierd coincidence man.
I will say this - my son is going to be encouraged (read Mom pushing really hard) to join the military following high school. I personally think it’s a very necessary and important part of his “education” so to speak.
I probably shouldn’t expand on that any further, cause I’ll no doubt end up sounding like an idiot, but it’s my .02.
As much as I agree with that, I am worried that it would also have the reverse effect on society
Having said that, I support at least a draft, if not mandatory service. I haven’t flushed out all the details, but other countries do it, so it is not an impossibility.
I think it would give the country a greater sense of individual responsibility towards protecting our freedom.
I also think it would go a long way towards breaking down stereotypes and ignorant perceptions.
Does anybody know just how many 18-20 year olds there are in this country right now?
If they did pass this, they would have to come up with a lot better solution to the gays in the military issue. It seems impossible to legislate that servie is compulsory, and BTW, so is your sexual orientation while you are here.
Hell no, we won’t go. Make love, not war. Due to the obesity epidemic, about 1/4 of all Americans probably couldn’t pass a physical and meet standards to get in the military anyway. Uniforms? Crew cuts? Waking up at sunrise with a drill seargeant yelling? NO, most Americans would not do that!
Those countries mentioned like Finland, Israel, Turkey…their military is like a police force. Their countries are so small, the people who serve are still close to home. They don’t travel the world much. The US military is very different because the country is bigger and they protect the free world.
… and how do they find every one of those soldiers with something to do?
Well, as I understand it, in Israel, the soldiers help out with the harvests and some policing work. Don’t know how they keep busy in Finland. Perhaps build saunas… I don’t know.
I don’t think it would be hard to find work for soldiers serving within their own country. While in service, you could help flood/storm/quake victims… seems like there is always a US state in a state of emergency every month. Soldiers could help out with policing duties at large events… as someone mentioned, they are paid for so we might as well use them.
As for military raising IQ, I meant it the other way around - having people from all walks of life in the military would certainly raise it’s social and intelligence level. Certainly, instilling some level of discipline may in turn do some good for the individual. It would be a win-win scenario in my opinion, but not without it’s costs, natch.
I am going to assume that you are not deliberately baiting me and give you a straight answer. If I am working under the wrong assumption, well, hell. It’s Wednesday - it’s anything can happen day!
I believe that it’s an important part of my son’s “education” to have some pride in his country. What in the heck is wrong with believing that he has a responsibility - no, make that a DUTY - to give something back to the country that has given us so much? The discipline, the pride, the honor - seems to me that that helps MAKE a man.
Germany is another country that has (or at least had in the cold war era) a universal conscription requirement. It was not necessary for the service ot be military, though. Paramedic, firefighter, police, etc. were also avenues of sevice. People who were physically unqualified for a particular service, IIRC, were route toward civil service positions.
BTW, I find the assumption that the average soldier is less intelligent than the average American to be unsupported by my own experience. It seems to me that a lot of folks are buying into a “dumb soldier” stereotype without having had much experience with soldiers.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
Missy2U:
Thanks, that answered my question. I respect your motives. And I was only deliberately baiting you a little bit - it was mostly geniune curiosity.
Although… I must admit your patriotism puzzles me. I don’t share the same feelings toward my country. As far as I’m concerned, paying taxes is good enough for ‘giving back to the country’.
For the general topic, the Australian Defence Force has a program called the Army Reserve… I don’t know if the US has a similar program? Anyway, the idea is, you sign up for a year and a half (or a year, not sure) and get all this training etc. You get paid, and supposedly gain all manner of valuable skills. Afterwards, you’re free to go, but you are liable to be called to arms if a conflict occurs. The program is entirely optional, and I don’t know how well their recruiting is going, but it seems like a reasonable compromise
I know. In a perfect libertarian world, there would be no need for the military. (If only they would all listen to you!) But we live in this imperfect world so just hang in there…
…by the way, I’m much more in your camp than I’ve had a chance to illustrate thus far on this board.
Well, at least I already qualified myself as a Constitutionalist, and not a Libertarian.
This is specifically legislated against. I think it is called the Posse Comitatus Act.
Think about it, do want another couple of million untrained police hanging around the country. It is bad enough as it is. I don’t want the government having to “find” police work for these guys to do.
I don’t know how the Act stands on protecting our borders from illegal immigrants, but I could see using them to seal up the borders. Help in times of emergency also seems ok.
Maybe the service should be in the National Guard instead of the army. That way the states would be in control.
Huh? How else would you enforce peace and honesty? And if everybody were already peaceful and honest, anarchy would do just fine.
[Note to Gaudere and RT: I merely responded to the gentleman’s remark. I won’t be posting a lot, so kindly allow me this small convenience (of not opening a separate thread) in this instance. Thank you.]
I’m also interested in the idea of what the military would do with people completely unsuited for military work. I mean, unless they’re going to put together an elite squad of scatter-brained, touchy-feely, big, fluffy hug giving commandos, I’m at a loss for what my duties could imaginably be.
my anscestors emigrated to the us from prussia in 1848 and 1853. among the reasons why; mandatory conscription.
any iraqis here? . . if they dont like you in iraq . . your in the army for the rest of your life.
uh uh . . not a good idea
I don’t think mandatory conscription in a nation basically at peace would be a good idea, or morally correct. Why pretend violence if you don’t need to?
If I moved to Israel, though, I would serve in a second. The army is the center of Israeli culture. If you don’t serve, you’re not really an Israeli. It takes precendence over everything. (One of my classes started a month late because my professor was in the reserves!) I hope the day is approaching when this will no longer be necessary, but even then, I can’t see the army losing its importance. However, it’s not a fun way to live, and I don’t recommend it. I have no idea why countries not at war would want to invite that without need.
