I’m not talking about being forced to join the military and I’m not talking about the experience of fighting in a war.
But for a normal person, is the experience of being in the military for a few years likely to improve them? By improve I mean would it make the person kinder, harder working, more organized, more employable, etc than that same person living an average life without the military?
My two cents as somebody that hasn’t served.
I don’t know about kinder. But I do think military service often makes a person more organized and a harder worker. The military system is designed to first manage a person into a disciplined and structured environment and then have them internalize that environment so they manage themselves. And I think that change generally makes a person more employable.
In my experience vets tend to be better organized, harder working and grittier. Not necessarily kinder.
That could be due to the military instilling those qualities in people. Of it could be that people who gravitate to the military and do well there already have those qualities. My guess it’s a bit of both.
If the OP is looking at the military as a mode of self improvement, don’t make that decision lightly. It could be just what you need to become a go getter. Or it could be hellish.
People with no military experience seem to think that wearing a uniform changes a person forever.
It’s not really true. Whatever a person does with his life between the ages of 18-21 affects you, and usually tells you a lot about the person’s character.
Sure, there are lots of stories about lazy, undisciplined teenagers who say “the army straightened me out, and thank god for that”.
But it wasn’t the army that did it–it was the person’s willingness to grow up and act like a mature adult.
The army does make a lot of demands on you. But so do civilian jobs.
But there is one big difference: the army is a job from which you can’t get fired.
Even if you’re a lazy fuck-up, you’re pretty much guaranteed a stable life: bed, meals and a monthly paycheck.
If you’re a soldier working in an army kitchen, you can be a slacker, avoid the heavy lifting, hide when a truck needs to be unloaded,work slowly, not help your buddies mop the floor, and just in general be a dick. People will hate you…but you’re there for the next 3 years, with a steady paycheck.
On the other hand, you can work hard, show initiative, ask to get sent for additional training and get promoted.
It’s similar in civilian life: You can get a job at McDonald’s…But if you don’t stop being a lazy dick, you’re going to get fired, lose your car and your apartment. Which may teach you a harder lesson than you would have learned by being a soldier. On the other hand, you can work hard, show initiative and get promoted.
I live in a country with universal military service. (well, almost). The large majority of all 18 year old guys serve 3 years, and girls serve 2 years, with zero pay.
And guess what? It’s no big deal.
In civilian life here, the first line on every resume or job application lists your military service.People applying for management positions usually have started to show their abilities during their army service, having taken on responsiblity at a young age as sergeants or officers.
And people applying for low-level work as laborers, also show it in their army service, having stayed at the rank of private the whole time.
So to answer the OP: No, joining the military does not make the average person better.
It just offers the average person a chance to be average for 3 years, if that’s what he wants.
Or it offers the average person a chance to use his 3 years for self improvement, and getting ahead in life, if that’s what he wants.
But it doesn’t change the average person or make him better.
For a teenager starting out in life, being a soldier is not so different than being a worker at McDonald’s. You are being offered your first opportunty to develop your character. Use it well, and for the rest of your life you will enjoy the benefits.
I joined the Navy 42 years ago and boot camp (or Recruit Training, as they called it) was my first real experience of being away from home and on my own, and I’m sure that was true for most of the women in my company.
Some of us figured out pretty quickly that you did what you were told when you were told and didn’t whine. Others tried to bend the system to suit them. Guess which ones succeeded?
My initial 4-year enlistment became an 11-year adventure and I think it made me better. It forced me to quit being shy. It forced me to make my own decisions rather than look to my parents. It showed me that it ain’t all about ME - I may want to go to that show/party/game, but my name showed up on the duty roster for that night. Guess I know what I’ll be doing. It also got me out of my comfort zone in a lot of ways and helped me figure out that I could do all sorts of things.
I encountered a lot of people who couldn’t, or wouldn’t, fit into the culture and the life. Some just muddled along till their time was up, some ended up in the brig, some were dishonorably discharged. A few never should have been allowed to join in the first place. I don’t think the military itself was the driver, but rather the vehicle. For some of us, it was like a magic carpet. For others, it was a bus driving over a cliff. It all depended on how you viewed it and what you wanted.
I don’t think my life would have been nearly as challenging or as much fun had I not enlisted.
I wouldn’t say some. I met some of the stupidest, laziest, most racist people while I was in the military. To paraphrase Bojack Horeman, “Just because you give someone a gun doesn’t mean they aren’t a jerk.”
Many employers go out of their way to hire people who have served in the military. They know military people know things like showing up for work on time and putting in a full day’s work.
I think that my 24 years in the military made me a better person as I didn’t really know where I was heading as a teenager. Of course if I hadn’t joined the military, where would I be now? I might have been an even better person.
I’ll tell you a small story on that, this from a friend of mine.
I went to one of the four (at the time) private military schools that only took in students in the military tradition. Now they all have military / civilian sides. Point being you went to university and did the military thing at the same time.
I was at my 25th reunion a number of years ago and talking with a group of classmates on our experiences and how different it was from the average college life. One of them said this. I am paraphrasing a bit, but this is almost verbatim.
“My father made me come here. I hated him for it. Hated him. You know, after we graduated I did not have a thing to say to him for 5 or 6 years because he made me come here. It took me a long time, but about 10 years ago I realized why he did it and it was the smartest thing he ever did for me.
My friends at the time, they all laughed at me cause I had to come here. But you know a couple of them flunked out of state schools and basically they don’t have much now. I would have flunked out if I went anywhere else. We all thought it was bullshit at the time, but we learned good lessons here at the U without knowing it.”
I also have not served, but I agree with the above. Another factor is that military service weeds out the complete dipshits that probably will not be able to benefit from military discipline.
My son did several years in the military, including a tour overseas. He was a pretty good kid before he left. After his return, he is the kind of adult son a father dreams of. He worked steadily (and got promoted twice) at a job for several years, decided what he wanted to do as a career, went back to school, and has gotten straight A’s in every class.
There was a lot of the military he didn’t like, but it was good for him.
Regards,
Shodan
The military has a culture where completing the mission takes precedence, and from what I gather, you fall into line with that and make it a lifestyle pretty quickly, or things are very unpleasant for you.
I have a very close friend from growing up who was basically a very smart slacker in that he wasn’t ever a couch-surfing mooch, but wasn’t ever particularly responsible or dependable. After enlisting in the Army and being commissioned (and making it to Captain), he got out after 3 years, and it’s a marked change. He’s now utterly dependable and responsible, although he still doesn’t have much in the way of ambition, and he’s no more or less ethical or moral than he went in.
I think the military generally inculcates values and behaviors that help them accomplish their tasks- if you have a “job comes first” culture that’s very strong and very reinforced, it makes things more likely to get done when the bullets are flying, as people are concentrating on their jobs because that’s what’s expected.
So if you’re an employer, this is great- in general, you know that the vets will stay late, come in early, work weekends, etc… to get the job done. This is good if you’re an aimless kid without any work ethic or anything like that- the military can give you that structure and mentality that you need to be able to accomplish whatever you choose to do… but it won’t necessarily give you the tools to identify what it is that you want to do.
Better for what?
The military offers structure, training and responsibility. Whether you take them up on those offers is entirely up to you. I completely agree with what has been said about it making you a better person if you choose to do so. There were very few men with shitty attitudes who accomplished anything in their enlistments other than to get unwanted attention from people who could make their lives miserable. I tried to mentor those who showed initiative and a good work ethic. The rest weren’t worth the effort.
Exactly. I’m not sure it would have made someone a better artist, athlete, or teacher. Certainly there are aspects of military training that might apply, but also there are aspects that would work against you.
A tour of duty “can” change a person and like others have said it instills a lot of discipline that would take longer to acquire outside the demands of the military. But, if you come in a dick chances are you will simply go out as a more disciplined dick. Most leaders in the military use the “I am the hammer and you are the nail” type leadership. It works and it is easier than actually becoming a good leader. Kind and gentle are not the things taught in the military, at least not the Army.
Every so often someone in the UK calls for the return of National Service (most recently Prince Harry), a compulsory 18-month stint in the military for all young men (barring various exemptions) followed by two years in the reserves.
The arguments are generally along the lines of how military training instills self-discipline, physical fitness, etc, etc.; the arguments against are generally along the lines of how the arguments for are not really true for most, and how it’s an extremely cost-inefficient way of making people better citizens (or whatever you’re trying to achieve). I think the point that the level of effectiveness has more to do with the individual than the program is well-made.
This doesn’t work this way in all country’s military’s and not all branches. It may be somewhat difficult to get fired in your first tour, but it’s easy to be such a no load that you can’t re-enlist. And with downsizing here the U. S., there are some quality Soldiers and Sailors who would like to stay but cannot.
And the guy/gal that is always missing when the heavy lifting needs to be done, quickly gets a name for themselves and is in for a miserable x number of years.
To the OP. It’s hard to say for sure. On the one hand a lot of us do a ton of growing up from 18-22 no matter where we are, in the military or out. I have to say this after 29 years in, a can remember only one person who I think left worse than they came in (discounting being wounded in battle). And four years isn’t all that much time in one’s life, and there’s a big upside.
This is not correct for the American army. The US military has a procedure known as administrative separation which is used to separate (fire) someone from the military. There is also, of course, the nifty judicial procedure where someone gets the chance to go to jail on his way to getting fired from the military.
This also is not correct for Americans. The lazy fuck-ups will not get promoted and quite likely will get either judicial or administrative separation.
The Soldiers/Sailors/Marines/Airmen/Coast Guardsmen assigned to military dining facilities are subject to the same disciplinary rules as the rest of the military. Slackers will not advance and quite likely will get either judicial or administrative separation. Running and hiding from work is a great way to get the judicial option.
The US military is still doing the “up or out” thing.
Your country’s military is obviously far different than the US military. Perhaps you should agitate for an all volunteer service like ours. Might improve your military.
In the brief period (1945 – 1960) – unique, I believe, in British history – during which the UK had peacetime conscription: there was quite a current of opinion to the effect that rather than improving young men’s characters – National Service was giving a whole generation of lads an education in petty dishonesty, cunning shirking of duty, and generally shabby conduct.
This was, admittedly, a situation of conscription in peacetime: which the OP stipulates in not one which he is primarily thinking about (and chappachula – if your country is the one which I guess it is, that’s a different set of circumstances). I get the picture that peacetime conscription for all young males is generally regarded as not an optimal situation, including by the military itself. Very many conscripts will inevitably be highly reluctant and resentful about what is being forced on them; and, no matter how much training they’re subjected to, will as much as possible, shirk and decline to co-operate. Quite a number of “regular” servicemen in peacetime are also apt to have considerable tendencies this way, as opposed to keenness to do the job as effectively as possible. Aside from situations of extreme national peril: it seems to be general received wisdom that volunteer military forces achieve their objectives a good deal better than those under coercion.
Mercifully, I never had to do UK National Service, at which I’d have been a disaster: was born some half-dozen years too late. I’d missed Prince Harry’s recent dictum – but hearing of it now, reinforces the impression I already had, that he’s a twit.
Depends. IME the camaraderie essentially magnifies peer pressure by a factor of 10. If you’re part of a team that has a habit of working hard, supporting one another, and staying focused on being good people, then it’s the best thing in the world for character development. I signed up as an emotional and intellectual coward and all-around weasel. It didn’t take long before I found myself on a different track where owning my mistakes and opening my mind became second nature. I credit Drill Sgt’s Miller and another we simply referred to as “Uncle George” with that transformation. They didn’t use fear either, like you might expect. They were very professional in their approach: get a private one-on-one moment, raise the issue they were concerned about, tell me I was better than that, and then assign me a task to prove to me they were right. Unconditional trust and respect…with the occasional outburst of terrifying rage. 
The Citadel, VMI, Texas A&M, and Norwich?