Is the only way to succeed at work to put up with bullshit?

This is true in “Dilbert.” It’s not actually true of most workplaces. There are some bad ones, but the thing is that they tend to go out of business.

Businesses that expend a lot of energy on Dilbertesque stuff die. The ones that don’t survive.

It’s also worth noting that I get the sense the SDMB membership might be unusually tilted towards holding jobs in academia, IT support, government, and other such things. Most jobs aren’t in those fields; they’re industrial supply stores, or steel fabricators, or the company that makes and installs wastewater filters. At those companies, if you’re not good at your job, they’ll fire you no matter how good you are at bullshit, because they simply can’t survive without productivity.

That may be true for smaller companies, but I’ve worked for Prudential and several other companies so large that they can burn cash for heat, staff entire divisions with untrained pygmy marmosets and recruit the crew of the B Ark for Upper Management…and still somehow manage to turn a profit.

My last job was with a small University, where the methodology of the Administration was to appear as busy as humanly possible while avoiding anything even remotely appearing to be a “decision” at all costs. Because anyone in the chain could bring any endeavor not specifically generated or approved by the President herself; or not specific only to that Executive’s private domain; to a screeching, humiliating* halt by expressing the slightest reservations about the plan. It was a clearly recognized political game within the Administration.

  • Humiliating to the person who generated the idea or made the plan, and detrimental to their continued career at the University.

Of course, like you say, that’s Acadamia, and not the Real World.

I have to call ‘Cite?’ on that one.

I do not know any one who makes, or even services, a product, other than some of my coworkers (and Production is the smallest department).

And, having worked in plenty of ‘blue-collar’ jobs, I can tell you that ‘office politics’ play out there, too.

I work in manufacturing. Plenty of bullshit. If you’re real good at bullshit, you get to be in management. As far as production workers go, if you’re a good worker, it doesn’t hurt, but it doesn’t seem to help much, either.

A little explanation of what I mean by BS, and my response to it.

In many instances, creating the appearance of doing something worthwhile is just as - if not more - important as actually doing something worthwhile. Often your boss is mostly interested in having you do things that they can report to THEIR bosses as accomplishments, while at all costs avoiding anything from happening that will force them to inform their bosses of anything unpleasant. So keep your boss happy by giving him/her what they want - something to brag about. Lacking that, above all else don’t do anything that will cause your boss’ boss to put your boss on the spot.

There is often a huge discrepancy between managers’ view of what is important, and labor’s view. Management’s concerns often seem to have little relevance to a worker’s day-to-day tasks, and often seem to interfere with the performance of those tasks. So your main time-management goal is to find a way to at least appear to be giving some lipservice to management’s concerns, while actually putting a dent on the work that is piling up and needs to be done.

Many managers place a terribly high value on controlling information, and doling it out only when absolutely needed. Don’t get pissed the 2d, 10th, and millionth time you encounter it. Too many jerks think information is power. Build your support groups, and figure out ways to compile and readily access info.

Of course, the other extreme is for mgmt to pour out a torrent of irrelevant e-mails and such, hidden within which may be the one nugget of information that is used down the line to say why something you have always done with no problem or complaint is against clearly communicated policy.

Once you accept the level of BS in your job, however, you can wrap yourself in it to create a lovely little cocoon of defensibility and anonymity. Put more effort into writing things up for management’s reports than actually attacking the workload, if that is what praise, bonuses, and raises are built on. All too often being the top producer simply earns you more work.

Value the fact that management carefully scrutinizes certain minutiae, because that will cause them to have blind spots in other areas. Scrupulously comply with what they pay attention to, while looking for the blind areas within which to carve out your flexibility and comfort.

Here’s a nutshell primer on one small aspect of many jobs- committees:

-Volunteer to be on teams/committees that you perceive will be of interest to the most important people in your organization, whether the subject matter is of any interest/value or not.
-Once on such a committee, immediately volunteer to take notes. That confers many benefits. First, you are too busy typing on the laptop to be expected to make much contribution during the meeting, while at the same time by taking notes you are clearly participating.
-Type the notes up and circulate them immediately following the meeting. That way you are the first person to have created any tangible product.
-When it comes time to request volunteers for specific tasks, well, you’d love to volunteer, but, you see, you are already so busy taking the notes and writing up the minutes. You’ll volunteer as soon as every other member of the committee has assumed a task that produces a tangible product akin to your minutes.
-Offer to work in subgroups with the most anal and opinionated member of the group. They will want to do everything in a certain way, and will like nothing more than someone who will quickly say, “I read over what you proposed, and it looks GREAT!” At times, you may wish to scan it briefly enough to spot a typo or something, just so you can point to your concrete contribution.
-You never need to propose anything. However, whenever someone else proposes something, immediately express your agreement. No need to be the first with an opinion, but you can always be the 2d. And your opinion can be nothing more than “Sounds GREAT! I agree!” That way, the group is never waiting around to hear from you, and at least the guy you agree with will view you as a positive contributor.

When all is said and done, you will be viewed as a valuable team player, at no cost other than wasting time from your normally assigned work tasks. But heck, even if those pile up, you have an excuse! You were swamped with all of this important work on this committee!

Oh, yeah. Getting your boss to face up to and act on bad news is … a consummation devoutly to be wished. I found a compliance gap a regulatory auditor could have been snowed on, but once I found it, they had to act on it.

The best way to get most bosses to push something through is to point out (oh, so subtly) how they can use it to screw someone else.
“Our Regulatory Compliance Officer has been failing at this for ten years, but don’t worry, my newest employee just noticed the gap!”
(My boss doesn’t play that game.)

Um, information is power. The Jerks have that right. The moral hear is ‘Play nice with the support staff’; somehow, even though they are not typing up the reports & memos anymore, they still know everything first.

Famous last words. :slight_smile:

It takes big companies longer to die, but believe me, they CAN die, and when the end comes just hope you aren’t there anymore. Ask someone who works for Ford or GM.

The cool thing about my job is I get to visit 100 different companies a year.

Look, I don’t know where you work, but just find an industrial park and drive around it.

They’re full of service companies. Really. All the auditors I know are worried because they can’t speak or read any Asian languages, and there aren’t enough scientific translators to go around. (Google ‘heparin’).

Yes. And do a lot of ass-covering with memos. In the 28 minutes per week left over from all of that, you can try to get some productive work done. :frowning:

And yet, I drive by so many that aren’t.

I really don’t think people comprehend just how much stuff is made. Here is a sample of the companies I’ve visited just in the last 30 days:

  • A place that makes wastewater treatment equipment
  • An industrial supply distributor
  • A precision machine shop that specializes in parts for assault rifles and hi-tech cameras
  • A steel plate cutting and bending shop
  • A rubber stamping shop
  • A structural steel manufacturer
  • A place that makes collets
  • A place that assembled pumps

I mean, there’s a bazillion of these places. They’re amazingly low-bullshit establishments, for the most part (I can’t guarantee they’re all bullshit-free.)

And of course, you need people to deliver that stuff, which is why there’s hundreds of thousands of truck drivers out there. Not exactly a bullshit-laden job, that. I know a lot of trucking companies and trust me, that is not an industry much given to bullshit.

Reading the first paragraph, I was thinking: This person studied math, statistics, and operations, and works as a programmer!
Any of the ‘hard’ or ‘scientific’ jobs are results driven. A liberal arts profession is almost entirely BS swallowing, and mindless nodding of the head, and spouting 'Good point, JR!" If the job pays well, stick with it, and you’ll be at the top sooner than you think. Nobody wants somebody that can shine light on their stupidity and incompetence.
You have a good job if 2 hours of the day are just spent nodding your head.

How many bulls does it take to keep a dairy farm running?

One.
But only if he’s REALLY good at his job.

I have to agree with RickJay. I’m in a service profession - management and technology consulting. I understand that 90% of what I do is bullshit. Basically, my job is to convince companies they need to pay $350 an hour to bring in a bunch of 25 year old kids to do a half assed version of a job they could do themselves. There is very little objective way to measure the success of a project other than the client paying their bill, so every raise, every promotion, every bonus in essence becomes a popularity contest. And unfortunately what is popular is often not correct.

When these types of companies are financially successful and has money to spend, it allows management to indulge in all kinds of fantasy. The company is going to grow indefinitely. Promoting that bright 23 year old kid just out of school to Director is a good idea. Flying 200 people out for a long weekend on some “team building” boondoggle will offset all the late nights, weekend work and other abuses. A $100,000 reception for our clients in a fancy Manhattan venue will actualy generate business.

I saw the same thing during the 90s with the Dot coms. Those companies were built on bullshit. The combination of money, smart but inexperienced people and a lack of tangible, measurable results, generally results in a lot of crap.

Manufacturing companies tend to have less of this kind of bullshit because they actully need to produce measurable results. At the end of the day, you either have your target number of widgets or you don’t. One of my Managing Directors, who is remarkably bullshit intolerant, made some observations after visiting our client, a large manufacturing company. He thought “this guy must think we are bunch of idiot children”. Here’s the head of a manufacturing group who’s been with the company for 20 years, working his way up from a shop floor machineist. And now he has to deal with a bunch of twenty and thirty something year old lawyers and consultants with no more than a few years work experience at any job and who are now going to tell him how to run his company. I’m surprised he didn’t take one look at us and realize he must be out of his mind.

The essence of bullshit in any organization enviroment is the disconnect between what decision makers believe to be true and what actually is proven to be true. And the problem is that the higher up you get, the more detatched you become from the realities on the ground. After than, ego and human nature takes charge. This guy criticizing my pet project isn’t pointing out real flaws. He’s just a malcontent and not a team player.
People who are too quantitative like engineers and programmers often do not understand or cannot grasp the subtle nuances of bullshit. In the real world, everything cannot be tied to equations. People have different opinions and judgements based on different information and experiences. Sicentific types aren’t immune to bullshit either. Think about how many engineering disasters occured because someone’s reality did not coincide with actual reality.

Hmmm. I find that reassuring, that real work is still being done somewhere.

However:

I drive a desk most days, but today I had to do real work. Sort of; I had to test material.

Things went to shit before 7 a.m. THEN, I tested material, and for the first time in the history of the company, the material failed.

My boss promptly threw me under the bus; I (and every other qualified analyst) spent the rest of the day re-testing the material, which failed every time. (We had to prove the test was done right, and all the equipment was functioning correctly.)

I clocked 11 hours today (beating the under-the-bus-boss by two hours). I didn’t leave until my boss’s boss told me to. If my boss had backed me from the start, matters would have been resolved by lunch-time, the material would have been re-worked, and no company officers would have needed to stay late.

Did I complain that my boss didn’t back me? Hell, no, that would be whining.

I just made damned sure everyone knew my boss left before the issue was resolved. It’s hard to cover someone else’s ass from under a bus.