Is the "pursue your dreams" thing a little overblown?

Great Debates
21

This is what I’m saying. You seem like a pretty earnest person. That’s cool. The world is built on the hard work of earnest people.

But why do you have to shit on other people’s choices? Not everyone wants the safe and stable past. Some of us are willing to risk a little uncertainty, and may indeed thrive on that. And risk-takers make the world go 'round, too.

Why would you say that wanting to spend a year after graduation in New York City indicates an inability to plan ahead or think critically?

New York City is a hell of a place, and she will no doubt meet lots of interesting people and have lots of interesting experiences that she will remember for the rest of her life and that will contribute to her development as a person. I have a good friend who did exactly that. It was not an easy time for her- rent was high and work is hard to find. But lord did she have adventures! And in the meantime she figured out what her next step would be. She just graduated from nursing school and is ready for the next stage of her life. But she wouldn’t trade those crazy, tough, uncertain and exciting times in the Big City for anything- especially not a just an extra year in the rat race.

In practical terms, if you dream of living in New York City, right after graduation is maybe the best time to do it. You really aren’t going to do any irreparable harm to your career by taking a year off at the beginning. But as you get older it will become harder and harder to make big moves like that, and once you have a family it may well be impossible. If you want to travel or work in strange places, do it while you are young! Your friend likely will have some hard times. But there are worse things than being a little broke while you are young. As long as she doesn’t rack up credit card debt or something, it’s fine.

Okay, so it’s not for you. But it might just be the best possible thing for her.

My own journey to my dreams has been a long interesting one that hopefully holds plenty more wonderful surprises. In high school, I dreamed of being a filmmaker. I went to University and studied film production, and I did quite well academically. After graduation I got a crash course in reality and quickly became extremely broke and depressed. I spent some time with my head just above water. But I managed to get some travelling in, and I realized that travel alone wasn’t going to fulfill me- I wanted to work abroad. I joined the Peace Corps and spent two years teaching in an African village (where I also managed to teach some video production) and I loved every minute of it. Best two years of my life so far. Then, I extended my service and now I am teaching in China. China has had it’s own set of challenges (though I’m learning tons every day- and doing good work), and I’ve realized that I would like to continue working in Africa. To make that a reality, I am in the process of getting applying to graduate schools in International Development. I’ve got plenty of friends in the field, and I am relatively sure that the path I am on now will lead me to where I want to be as I enter my 30s. Meanwhile, it’s been an interesting decade. I learned three languages, visited a couple dozen countries, worked on three continents, and made great life-long friends. I’m thrilled with how it’s turned out and proud of myself.

It’s not a well-planned life. Or a very efficient one. Nor has it been particularly easy. I could certainly be making more money (though I’m pretty sure after grad school I’ll be in a good position.) But it’s a more amazing life than I ever thought I’d have growing up in my suburb. And I hope these crazy twists and turns continue to delight and surprise me. My life is as much discovered as it is planned, and I like it like that.

I’m pretty sure you aren’t in to that kind of risk and instability. But please, understand that we don’t all share want what you want. And in any case, even the best laid plans can go wrong. The well-matched couple with engineering and accounting degrees can end up laid off, too. You can’t eliminate risk. You just have to decide how much you are will to take.

22

I’ve pursued all kinds of things in my life so far. Once I got around to focusing on a decent job, things overall are much improved. Dandy even. But then I actually like my work.

In retrospect I’d say in my pre-career days (though I always had some kind of job) I didn’t much care for money and therefore never made the kind of calculations in the op. Then one day that changed, and I acted differently. I don’t think the change was precipitated by a debate or some education however. It’s more like it was the next thing after I’d finished what I was doing.

23

Like many, you misuse the notion of a risk to make flighty behavior seem adventurous. There are risks and then there are just stupid choices. A legitimate risk is one where the likelihood and severity of failure is made up for by the likelihood and magnitude of success.

Maybe you don’t know lots of people in their late teens and early twenties who kid themselves that they’re on their way to adventurous careers. I’ve met dozens of people who talk as though they’re honestly going to be graphic designers or theater directors yet don’t seem to have a clue about the sort of effort needed to do that. They get average grades, waste lots of time, and dream about making cult films.

Forgive me for shitting on their dreams. They were never going to come to fruition anyway. The reason that your dreams are going to come to fruition is because unlike many people I know (read: dreamers), you have taken actions that bring success. You graduated from college. You got into and participated in the Peace Corps. I imagine that you had to do at least a little fenangling to get your present job in China.

People who want to succeed in their dream fields need to understand that they need to work harder than those who go into more profitable fields. Some people, like you, understand this. Others don’t. Don’t suggest that I’m Mr. Dependable-and-Boring because I recognize this.

24

You say that like 6 hours is that close. By my calculations, that places you closer to Pittsburg PA, Richmond VA, Montreal or Bangor ME depending on which direction you go.

More to the point, their “dream” is largely mental masterbation and mostly fantasy derived from sitcoms and films set in the Big Apple. Are they in a profession that will pay them enough to live in the city and enjoy what it has to offer? Do they know anyone there? Do they want to spend $2000 a month living in a one room studio? Probably not. They just have some vague notion of moving there someday to live some hipster lifestyle.

People dream and set goals about a lot of things. Few actually take steps to make them happen.

You know, there are some of us who do actually live and work in NYC because that’s just where we live and work.

I did that. Right after I got laid off from my job.

25

I went to NYC right after college, with $17 in my pocket, no resume, and no idea what I’d do when I got there. I wound up living there for 25 years, and became the Creative Director and Partner of an ad agency. And yes, I had to work my ass off.

26

I’m not sure where you think I live (western New York by the way), but NYC is considerably closer than all of those other cities. It also has an allure that Bangor, ME (Stephen King notwithstanding) that the others don’t.

That’s exactly my point. To some people, their dream is just some vague notion that it would be great to recreate Sex and the City, Seinfeld, Friends or some other sitcom by living in NYC. The reality is, almost all of these people are underemployed in the cheap locales they currently live in, so they have no money with which to follow their “dream” and just come off like loons.

I’m all for working hard to follow your dream, but some people need to learn the difference between their dream of what they want and the pipe dream that this idea most likely is.

27

It sounds like what The Bith Shuffle and Justin_Bailey have problems with isn’t the people who pursue their dreams, it’s the people who don’t pursue them, aka the ones who don’t work at it. I don’t really think that’s a flaw with the idea of pursuing a dream, but a flaw with lazy people.

28

Thinking back to the types who most loudly advertise that they’re “following their dream,” it often seems to be an attempt to obtain quick social status at the expense of material well-being. As such, a morally neutral transaction, if you can pull it off.

29

:wink:

30

Some people dream of being scientists, some people dream of being hedge fund traders.

Your post is flawed in that it assumes that dreams must be arts related.

There certainly are enough jobs for people to pursue their dreams. And even if you can’t do precisely what you want to do, IE, be a successful novelist, you can still do something that is more creative.

31

Man, the OP’s paean to Money was great. Haven’t seen such a bravura performance since Gordon Gekko. Pity I disagree with every bolded point.

32

Well now I think you live somewhere near Buffalo or Rochester.:smiley: (I just picked a couple of cities in various directions about a 6 hour drive away according to Google Maps.)

But I think we are in agreement. If you have a desire to do something, you should set about doing it. Don’t just talk about it.

You also need to find out if the reality of your dream is the same as your fantasy. Some people say they want a job where they can travel the world. Well I’ve had jobs like that. It can be fun and interesting, but it can also be very lonely and isolating living out of a suitcase making “single serving friends” all over the place. Same thing with living in NYC. Unless you are making money, it’s pretty hard to live a hipster SoHo lifestyle.

But I’m generally about trying stuff, seeing how you like it and then adjusting your goals accordingly.

33

Not to mention that there are multiple millions worth of paying jobs in the United States of America for artists.

Evil Consultant (I put this in because I am actually being paid for this on a current contract)
Illustrator: Comics, Magazines, Advertisements
Graphic Design: Print and Electronic Media
Musicians: Piano Bars, DJs, Sessions Musicians, Writing Jingles, TV and Film Soundtracks
Film Production: Produce, Direct, Art Direction, Costume Design, Set Design
Photographer: Landscape, Fashion, Journalism
Writer: Marketing, Fiction, Comics, Short Stories, Video Games
3D Modeler: Advertising, Film, Video Games, Animation
Sculptor: Film, TV, Advertising, Public Art
Interior Decoration: Window Displays, Home Decor, Model Homes, Models for Advertisements
Painting: Murals, Promotional Materials, Galleries, Event Decor
Lighting Designers: Theater, Film, Disco/Rave
Fashion Design: Haute Couture, Runway, Custom Clothes, Bespoke Tailoring
Architect: New homes, Large buildings, Remodeling
Cooking: Too many cuisines to mention

For anything I’ve left out, I hope I made my point. Just as with any industry arts/entertainment has a limited number of slots for people to make millions, but the idea that these pursuits are unattainable is fucking silly. Not everyone dreams of being an artist, but if you do dream of being an artist, it’s not unattainable by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with the central point that we must do something to slice off a survivable piece of the pie, even if it’s not following our dreams, but dreams are not limited to the arts, and there are multi-millions of jobs in the arts from high paid actors and rock stars to local spot contract work.

34

But you can live a hipster Bushwick lifestyle on the cheap really easily.

35

I think that few enough people pursue their dreams to any serious degree. After all, it isn’t the dream that matters, but the pursuit. Going after something with determination is what makes the world move, whether it’s even sven’s world travel and teaching, or msmith537’s corporate climbing.

You (the OP) seem to have a dream in mind, a dream of financial stability and success. This is a fine thing to have as a dream. It is not, however, the only fine thing to have as a dream. Money is not a bad thing, true, but it is not a good thing either, it is just a thing. Creative work is exactly the same, really, neither good nor bad in itself.

What is good is the work, the changes on yourself (generic) and the world that occur as you pursue your dream. If you want to be the next Buffett and pursue that single mindedly you are as likely to close in on Jimmy as you are Warren.

36

Enough people here have pointed out that not all “dreamers” end up being artists, and it’s something I can’t agree with enough. In fact, I don’t think artists are even the biggest problem… for the most part, the situation is self correcting, and relatively quickly. I have no problem with guys in garage bands who fail to make it big, because they never set themselves up for success, and they’ve probably always had a plan B.

Granted, there are a fair number of people who graduate from college with photography, english, and music degrees who spend a few years working at Starbucks before figuring out that maybe they should have learned a marketable skill and left the photography/writing/music to “hobby” status.

But I don’t think the problem there is the dreaming part, the problem is that high school students are not just told to follow their dreams, they’re also told that college is the (required) path to a rewarding successful career, and lo and behold, colleges are more than willing to take their money in exchange for a “dream career.” It couldn’t be more simple! Dream + college = success!

This holds true for history, journalism, marketing, literature, and/or any number of degrees where the job market isn’t large enough to hold all the dreamers.

You don’t see people who dream of being the next Chip Foose working at a call center while holding a degree in Automotive Modification and Design, hoping some day to make it big as they tinker in their garage. Or a guy working at the Gap with a degree in Golf Playing, pissed off that Stanford convinced him that he’d be on the Master’s Tour in 5 years. There is no college path for those folks, so they learn a skill and either make it or they don’t, but they don’t get that sense of entitlement, that a certain career path is as simple as a dream and a degree.

That’s my theory, at least.

37

steronz I agree with what you said but with a caveat. All of those industries have plenty of room to support those careers but there are two mitigating factors.

  1. People who are successful in a career who do not appreciate that career keeping that job away from someone who desires it more than anything. IE Hack writers keeping it from aspirational ones.
  2. Unrealistic expectations. You can get into marketing, photography, etc… very easily if you think locally. I know people who get paid for photography gigs or who upload thousands of photos to stock photo galleries and make a few bucks a month off of that.

I don’t think that it’s fair to say you are unentitled to work in the field of your dreams, not at all, you can get there and there are more missed opportunities than most people realize, what you are unentitled to is to become rich and famous from working in that career.

If you’re a good illustrator there are plenty of ways to get your work published. You have to be willing to work for free and prove that you can come in on a deadline, and have a portfolio to show, but eventually you can get there. I know lots of professional illustrators.

38

True, true… and, in fact, I suppose for every person I know who had to get a job completely unrelated to their degree just to make ends meet, I know someone who did end up getting a job in their field, albeit it was a hard earned, low paying job.

In any event, I’m going to tell my kids they can do whatever they want as long as they have a convincing survival plan short of “Go to college, ???, profit!”

39

I think people need to realize that internships and pro bono work are often MORE important than college experience.

40

There is so much bullshit in the OP that I just don’t have the time, energy or inclination to try and address even a small portion of it other than to say that not everyone dreams of being a creative type, and the blind pursuit of money leads to a lot of lonely old people who look back at their lives and wonder where it all went.

When the OP revealed her/his age, he/she said more with the number “20” than the entire original post.

If the person enjoys working at Tully’s while working on electronic music in his small apartment, and feels fulfilled by it, who are you and I to question how well-lived his life is? There’s plenty of life for anyone and everyone to find whatever it is that makes them happy and to pursue it.