As a practicing Utah Mormon ( a sometimes lonely Utah Mormon Democrat), I agree 100% with Erdosain’s take on it. There is absolutely no reason to put the church behind his candidacy.
There is no need to look for deeper meaning behind Romney’s missteps and about faces than the simple fact that people make mistakes and politicians seek political expediencies.
Scacarius,
Thanks for the informative response.
Crane
This omits the pertinent question as to why he wants to be president pretty bad. I’ll let a former Mormon explain it (bold is mine):
"During the endowment, Mormons are required to take secret oaths that they will obey various “laws.” The “law of obedience” requires them to obey “the law of God and keep his commandments.” They don’t specify what the “law of God” is, but Mormons understand that the Mormon church is the only true source of God’s law and commandments. So they are taking an oath to obey their church.
The “law of sacrifice” requires a “covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God.” Mormons understand “the kingdom of God” to be the Mormon church. …
The last law is the “law of consecration.” It requires the Mormons to:
[INDENT]…consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
"A couple of terms need explanation. The “Kingdom of God on the earth” and “Zion” mean, to Mormons, not just their church, but ultimately the theocracy that will replace the non-religious civil government. They believe, of course, that Christ will come to run this government, using faithful Mormons as administrators.
"The pressing question for Mitt Romney, and for the Mormons who are supporting his candidacy, is: Would Romney consider the Presidency to be something that God had “blessed” him with, and which, pursuant to his secret oath, he should “consecrate” to his church for establishing a theocracy? If he is elected, will he kneel down and thank his God for blessing him with the presidency? And what is he supposed to do, according to his secret oath, with “everything” God has blessed him with? That’s right: He is to use it for the benefit of the Mormon church.
"Now wait a minute, you may be thinking. It doesn’t really mean that! The Mormon church doesn’t expect that from its members, does it? Oh, yes, it does! … [/indent]
So the answer to the OP is, contrary to protestations otherwise, yes, make no mistake about it, it absolutely is.
So is there anything that wouldn’t support your position?
Based on no evidence posted by anyone. I don’t think you were very patient when people used this kind of reasoning to cast aspersions on Barack Obama. Why is this different?
Marley,
The issue here is not personal and it is not Obama.
The clear evidence (by LDS historians) is that economic and other Mission Calls are an important part of LDS history. Responding to them falls under the law of obedience.
If you have a position in this discussion perhaps you could state it and offer some evidence in support.
Crane
I’ve already stated a position: I see no reason to believe your explanation because every single thing you have said is consistent with “guy who wants to be president” and does not support your theory in any specific way. You’ve said you believe Romney has run for president (twice) because of a mission call. The evidence you’ve provided is … mission calls exist. Ok, so they do. The rest is interpretation, and your interpretation is based on a couple of points that are just as easily explained without the mission call and a couple of assertions that were wrong. Romney spent a decent amount of his own money in the 2008 campaign, but from what I can tell he has not spent any of his own money this time. He wasn’t a “minor political player,” he’s been seen as a potential presidential candidate for a while. That’s why the Bush administration encouraged him to run for governor of Massachusetts. He was a devout, wealthy guy with what was seen as a strong business record who was able to get Democrats to vote for him. (He’d previously done pretty well running against Ted Kennedy.) In other words, they felt he could be a presidential candidate similar to Bush.
I find it a bit amusing that people think there has to be a secret reason or ulterior motive why someone would want to be President. How about you get to be the most powerful man in the world? Might that be a reason?
And while the article Shayna linked to is generally spot on (and accurate), it goes too far at precisely the point she quotes. Is it troubling that Mitt Romney has sworn an oath to give everything he owns and all his efforts to the Mormon church? Sure it is. But last time I checked, he still had assets totaling hundreds of millions of dollars for his own personal use and enjoyment. It’s clear that modern Mormons (and I can add my witness to this) regard this oath less than literally.
I’m all for exposing the troubling facets of the Mormon temple ceremony, but it’s a ridiculous jump from Mitt Romney is a devout Mormon to he is a Mormon sleeper agent! Is Harry Reid also a sleeper agent? Are they waiting to convert John Boehner in his tanning bed to bring on the New Mormon Order? It’s absurd on its face.
Even if true I don’t see how this is any different from other candidates who overtly or covertly are fulfilling some kind of mission, religious, political, moral, or personal. If he doesn’t say it is, there’s no reason to label his candidacy this way. It’s actually one of the less offensive ways to label his candidacy. In addition, I believe Mitten’s LDS participation has always been for self gain and not out of spirituality.
Marley,
Thanks for your thorough and interesting response.
My view, with which you do not agree, is that Romney has ample evidence that he is not a successful politician. After one term as Governor he was so unpopular that a second term was off the table. He lost all of the other races. He required enormous resources to prevail in a primary that was composed largely of Clowns. Each of whom beat him for a period of time.
Of course we cannot know if the Romney candidacy is a Mission Call because LDS is a secret society.
I do wonder about it and I am curious to see if others share my concern. So far in this thread one person - Shayna - has done so.
Crane
Erdosain,
Good points, but ‘absurd on it’s face’ applies to many things associated with LDS.
Crane
Oh nice personal dig there, Marley. Gosh, let me think here … Yeah, I posted a link to a Mormon who knows the inner workings and teachings of the church and what the oath Mormons like Romney are required to take means … that’s exactly like the Muslim/America-hating/Kenyan/Socialist/Marxist dispersions cast against Obama. Mmm-hmm. GMAFB dude.
He didn’t run for a second term because he was already getting ready to run for president. Of course that contributed to his low popularity.
He did better than any of Kennedy’s other challengers, although he was still beaten soundly. His performance in the 2008 primaries was considered disappointing since observers felt he had a strong resume.
Yes, he did. I think your general assessment of the guy as a campaigner is pretty accurate - he’s not very conservative and he’s had to pretend to be almost a completely different person to win the nomination from an increasingly rightist party. But that was what he wanted to do, so he did it. He doesn’t need to be taking orders from his church for that to make sense. He could just be an entitled guy with few convictions who wants power very badly and is willing to compromise a great deal to get it. That’s not terribly unusual in politics.
I think Crane is on to something significant here, the PBS show The Choice 2012 alluded to the idea that Romney being an elder in the Morman church may feel more than a simple obligation to his faith, and that his presidential run was more than ego, it was aspirational, as a way for the Mormon Church to become more accepted and mainstream in the way that JFK as a Catholic normalized Catholicsm in a predominently Protestant country. And really, even though he’s not my choice for President, I think my view of Mormanism has been tempered somewhat by his run for office.
Marley,
Of course he doesn’t need to be taking orders from his church - but the possibility exists.
Perhaps he should have run as a Progressive Democrat in the 2008 primary. He might have won. I probably would have voted for him.
Crane
I’m not aware of any such “mission calls” by the Church in the last 100 or so years. It’s certainly not a common thing, if it’s done anymore at all.
First off, Romney’s almost certainly a High Priest, not an Elder, and even that’s not all that special. The vast majority of faithful Mormon men are “Elders” or “High Priests.”
He could be a sleeper candidate, secretly a Catholic and taking his charge from the Pope. There’s pretty much the same evidence for it that there is for him being on an LDS Mission Call - but the possibility exists.
He isn’t a failed minor politician any more than Obama was a failed minor politician when he ran. A one term senator, lost his first primary for congress, no major accomplishments before his presidential campaign. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton had few more accomplishments than Romney. It really doesn’t matter when running for President once you become established as a “real” candidate.
Romney was fairly successful as MA governor, he moved on not because he failed but because he always had his eye on national office.
Telemark,
Romney moved on because he polled %38 popularity in Mass, so obviously could not run for a second term. His political career was over as was amply demonstrated by the effort required to get him through the Republican primaries.
Obama served three terms as an Illinois Senator, moved up to the US Senate and won a hotly contested primary against the most formidable opponent in the US, was subsequently elected President and is favored to win a second term. Compared to that, Romney is a political zero.
Romney had no realistic political expectations because his Progressive position was occupied by both Hillary and Obama.
That is why I raise the possibility of an LDS Mission Call. It does not require an elaborate conspiracy plot. A Mission Call lies well within the LDS domain.
Crane,
I’m really torn between which thread is more full of crazy: this one or the “Bush stole the 2004 election” one. I see essentially zero chance that the LDS Church issued some sort of formal “mission call” to Romney to run for President. Besides, if Romney were really as failed and washed-up a politician as you seem to think, why would they issue it to him? Why not Harry Reid?
n/m