Should Romney do a Hillaire Belloc?

Great Debates
1

I like Mitt Romney, but the recency of his social conservatism makes me a bit cautious.

I like Mike Huckabee, but the rapist-parole, tax-policy Qs & a variety of thoughtless-to-prejudicial comments are troubling me.

As far as personal theology, I’m much more with Mike than with Mitt. But that is totally irrelevant to who would be a better President.

I’ve been troubled for years by LDS reticence to be open about their more explicit differences with traditional C’nity- the nature of God, exaltation to divinity, Temple rites, e.g. I respect more the JW approach of openly & proudly declaring where they differ from trad-C’nity. Of course, they aren’t trying to blend into society & run for public office.

In the early 1900’s, when Catholic writer Hillaire Belloc ran for Parliament, he was challenged about his Catholic faith. He held out his Rosary, proudly declared his daily practice of praying on it & told the voters that if that caused them to vote against him, he thanked God he would be spared from representing them in Parliament. He won handily.

Would it be beneficial for Romney to be open about LDS teachings, his faith in them, and then challenge the voters to live up to the American value of religious liberty, or to continue his “These questions are attacks on my personal faith & have no place in American politics” way of responding?

I really hoped today for a response like this-
"We believe that all spirits began as God’s children, Jesus as His Firstborn, and the rest of us as His younger children. Therefore, it is not that remarkable to me that Jesus and Lucifer were once brothers. What is remarkable to me is that Jesus considers me a brother and that the Devil does not. And that goes for everyone… even Mike.

Now let’s cut the crap and talk about what’s best for America."

Would that have been good for his candidacy? Or is this evidence as to why I’m not working as a political consultant.

Woul

2

Absolutely not. LDS theology is, and I’ll be polite here, a tad bit more unorthodox than your typical religion. Romney is best to steer clear of any sort of discussion that might lead to things like golden tablets, baptizing the dead, or ancient Israeli tribes. He simply needs to keep hitting the “Jesus rocks” and “Mormonism=Christianity” notes, and not go into any more details about his belief.

3

LDS beliefs about golden tablets, baptizing the dead and ancient Israeli tribes are actually relatively common knowledge, along with JC’s trip to the Americas. It’s the other stuff that is obscure & therefore scary to a lot of people. Also, because it’s obscure, it’s vulnerable to misunderstanding & misrepresentation. Secret stuff scares people. Be open about the obscure scary teachings & people may think they are crazy, but at least not scary anymore.

4

I think you vastly overestimate the number of people that know about Mormon orthodoxy.

5

Anybody who wants to know about LDS theology from real live Mormons can easily get information from:

Calling the local missionaries and asking
Reading any of the myriad books available at the library and bookstore (I recommend Millet’s The Mormon Faith for this purpose)
Walking into a chapel on a Sunday, collaring a random person, and asking to speak to someone (on a weekday, try the local Family History Center)
Or even reading some of the theological discussions in the Bloggernacle

Mitt Romney is not a spokesperson for his religion more than any random Mormon is. Something like 50,000 full-time missionaries are official (if amateur) spokespeople! It’s not Romney’s job to spend all his time fielding all those questions–he’s supposed to be talking politics, not religion. Answering, for the billionth time, that tired old question about Jesus and Satan being brothers (one answer is here and as you can see it doesn’t do well as a soundbite) is just a distraction from the actual campaign. That’s not really an honest question by someone who wants to know the answer; it’s a deliberate distortion meant to scare people so they won’t ask real questions.

BTW did you see or read his speech last week, in which he said:

You might like to read about when Reed Smoot was grilled for quite some time about his faith by the US Senate in, I believe, 1912; that’s an interesting story.

6

Oh, no! The one thing Romney can’t afford to open to public discussion here is the truth! :wink:

7

I believe Mormon practice includes some secret rituals Mormons are not allowed to discuss with “gentiles.” You can’t change that rule without changing the faith.

8

Religious right voters are used to having their asses kissed, and wouldn’t respond well to such a move. Additionally, the President isn’t like a member of Parliament: the President is supposed to be President of everybody, at least in theory. So telling some of the voters “if you don’t vote for me, I’ll be glad not to have your support and won’t have to do what you want” would not be well received by many people.

Most people don’t know anything about Mormonism, and even though Romney has apparently been very involved in the LDS church, comes from a prominent Mormon family and says his faith is very important, he obviously doesn’t want to be the one to explain it. I’m sort of surprised that doesn’t bother more people than it does.

9

Thanks for the Jeff Lindsay site. And the direction to Reed Smoot.

OMG! I just went to BrainGlutton’s Chick link! JACK CHICK’S DONE THE FIRST NEW CRUSADERS COMIC IN AT LEAST A DECADE!!!

So I wonder how he connects the LDS to the Catholic Church.

10

If that’s true, then that’s a bigger problem than anything he can legitimately say about Church Doctrine. Secret rituals? Run for the hills, folks!!

I don’t think he has anything to gain by delving into the details of Mormonism. It’s too easy to make fun of almost any religion if it’s put under a microscope. Catholics: So you’re most sacred sacrament is an act of cannibalism? :eek: He’s better off just making sure people accept that it is a form of Christianity.

11

If you want to know the secret Mormon rituals just look up “Masonic Ritual” on google.

12

But will google kill me after I read it? I’d like to know that first. :slight_smile:

13

I really don’t see why that’s a problem–your statement puzzles me. Romney’s job is to run for President, not spend months fielding endless questions (the answers to which are easily available) about doctrinal details. If I were in the market for a car, I wouldn’t grill my car salesman about his religion rather than about the car’s specs. If I were interested in his religion, I’d head over to his church and see what it was like. I’d find some books at the library and meet a priest or something.

There is a small industry in writing books about how scary and weird Mormons are, and an endless stream of dishonest questions designed to illustrate their weirdness rather than to gain knowledge. A presidential candidate is not the guy to answer the output of that industry (100+ years’ worth!); that’s a distraction from his campaign and the actual issues affecting voters that they need to know about. Romney’s the only guy who can tell you about his political policies, but there are thousands of missionaries and hundreds of scholars to tell you about Mormonism.

There are answers to all those questions easily available from several sources, many of which are right out there on the Web. Anyone wanting to know anything about the LDS Church can find out the information more quickly by consulting those sources rather than waiting to get into an interview with one particular guy and trying to squish the answers into a soundbite. Mormons want people to ask honest questions, and they’re usually more than happy to answer or direct you to answers–but during work hours you’re not supposed to be doing that.

More sources of information about Mormons (at a more detailed level):

FARMS is the scholarly theologian guys, at least some of them
FAIR is a group specializing in addressing anti-Mormon literature
JosephSmith.net collects historical documents and information at one site

BrainGlutton is correct that Mormons don’t talk about temple worship. Naturally that makes people nervous and gives rise to interesting rumors. The reality, however, is not nearly as interesting. It’s true that there are accounts online, though I’m not sure what you would get from searching “Masonic rituals”–but those accounts are invariably from anti-LDS sources and pretty twisted, in a “you eat your God!” sort of way. Don’t put a lot of dependence on their accuracy.

BTW just to be clear, I’m not a Romney supporter. He seems to me to possibly be the best Republican candidate right now, but that’s not saying a lot (and I’m a registered Democrat, though I don’t think much of their current offerings either).

14

It’s not a problem for me; I dislike the guy because I think he’s a total phony and I don’t care about his religion. And I don’t find the contradiction puzzling: clearly, he thinks that explaining his faith would put some people off, even if it’s not exciting or bizarre. But like I said, if you keep saying your faith is important to you, as he does, it invites speculation if you refuse to explain it. Huckabee is a former preacher, and Romney is basically the same. Wouldn’t people find it weird if Huckabee (assuming be was from a relatively unknown sect) declined to discuss what he believed?

The job of running for President pretty much consists of doing whatever the candidate thinks is necessary to win. Romney hasn’t fielded any questions, so I think it’s inaccurate to suggest he’s been overwhelmed with requests for details about Mormonism.

15

The problem is that Romney is trying to have it two opposing ways; he wants to win the votes of people who base their vote on their religious beliefs but he wants these same people to overlook the fact that his religious beliefs are different than theirs.

16

I’d welcome an open and honest debate between Romney and Huckabee about their respective religions. For every “What’s the deal with the underwear?” Romney gets to ask "So what’s up with the End Times? Do you think that 75% of Americans are going to get Left Behind? Tell me what you really think of Jews. Hey, Rudy, what’s this transubstantiation about?

Somehow, I think that would be pounced upon as another front on the War on Christianity pretty quickly.

17

He is a sentient of faith! We don’t need to quibble about the details!

18

Since the faith has treated women like second class citizens for over a hundred years, I believe he has questions to answer. Then their stance on blacks will also have to be defended. It would be difficult for him to thing voters will ignore them.

19

Re LDS stance on women- very few people care.

Re LDS stance on blacks- hasn’t been relevant for about three decades now.

The vast majority of voters will ignore them.

20

I don’t think LDS is visibly any more antifeminist than most Evangelical Protestant denominations.