Oh bull fucking shit. She was a lawyer, Senator, and Secretary of State. Also, she’s got a pile of money and a cadre of incredibly loyal soldiers. “Failure” isn’t remotely an honest summary.
I made no predictions for the election. I thought that Trump would do much better than the polls indicated. Didn’t think he’d win, but thought it would be much tighter than predicted. I am not terribly surprised Trump won, a bit but not much.
Note, you dismiss the polls that actually got the election right as:
Yet those polls were right. Why did you not accept them as valid? I suspect that the methodology and sample had nothing to do with it. You ceded your judgement to ‘experts’ that agreed with what you wanted because that is what most 'Dopers do. However, experts are often wrong yet that is rarely acknowledged.
Yet, from the very start, this election wasn’t anything at all like the last elections. Trump came out of nowhere, killed the Republicans in the primaries. That wasn’t predicted. That should have been a giant sign that things weren’t the same this time around which is a good reason to question the polling methodologies based on previous elections.
They aren’t straw man arguments. These are thing people on the SDMB actually post.
Here is an example:
Sez Der Trihs
Not to be outdone, Jonathan Chance chimes in with:
Link.
Note, I am agnostic on abortion, it isn’t a big issue as far as I am concerned and have no desire to change any laws.
Yet the point I was making is that for certain subjects on the SDMB, if you disagree it is because you have some major personality flaw. And those who disagree get called all sorts of nasty things. This lasts for a bit, then the dissenters leave. The end result is an echo chamber where everyone agrees with everyone else and talks about how smart they are because they all agree.
Slee
How many of those are liberal post-mortem threads vs right-wing gloating? All the ones I read were either ways to roll the turd in glitter by liberals/moderates or ways to try and dissect the corpse to see what went wrong.
I still have yet to see a serious conservative celebratory thread on here so far.
FWIW, I just threw you a bone in the Pit too. It’s actually attitudes toward people like you that make me feel this place is an echo chamber. There are some Grade-A conservative assholes on this board, but you ain’t one of 'em.
That said, it’s not like all liberals on this board treat conservatives that way, the issue is just that a handful of them are so rude their 2 cents stand out more than anyone else being civil. The same things happens with the sexists, and the racists. I have a problem with sexism on this board and sometimes it does feel ‘pervasive’ – but if I sat down and thought about it, I could probably narrow the brunt of my frustration down to about ten posters.
The bubble chamber many liberals live in is a feature not a bug.
As a younger person I had a friend who use to play basketball with the teenagers in his neighborhood. He won most of the games he played and became convinced he was good. He then played in a league that had good players and was one of the worst players.
That is the same thing with liberals, they only encounter conservative arguments as strawmen on the Daily Show and so they think they have the best arguments. Then they come into this forum or one like it and encounter real conservatives and are exposed as having poor arguments. Since the media is so liberal conservatives encounter actual liberal arguments all the time and so are prepared to refute them. To me that is one of the reason the SDMB is so great, I don’t think of conservatives as being outnumbered, I think of it as a target rich environment.
That’s “blatant trolling” worthy of an official warning for daring to post such a thing in ATMB but in a thread started to question that judgement…
comparing republicans to moon landing deniers, isn’t even worthy of a comment that it’s not the appropriate forum.
I do think most of the mods usually try to be fair, but sometimes they absolutely do fail at it, and when they do, it’s almost always on one particular side of the “chamber”.
You are very welcome. Thank you for all your posts over the years.
Spice Weasel, you have a good point here, and thank you for making it. I do think though that even when it may just be a handful of people being overtly rude, it gives rise to a certain culture where dismissing those kinds of comments/people (that is, conservative ones) is thought of as acceptable, if that makes any sense? (I think this about sexism on this board, too, now that you bring it up, although there are also many more women on this board who will push back on the most overtly sexist statements than there are conservatives.)
Sure it is. She’s had so much gifted to her and she sucked at each of them. She was a lawyer who wanted to deny Nixon the right to legal representation. She was a senator who voted for the Iraq War and very little else.
Her number one accomplishment as secretary of state was getting a lot of frequent flyer miles, which as has been pointed out is an activity, not an accomplishment. She also failed to get a status of forces agreement in Iraq, leading to American pullout and in large part allowed ISIS to form in Iraq.
I and a large chunk of the American people think she got that “pile of money” largely through corrupt methods. The mob also has “a cadre of incredibly loyal soldiers” it is hardly a sign of success in and of itself.
Exactly! The Left is prone to hyperbole and exaggeration, but not so the Right!
Every word there is the unembellished truth, and you can look it up if you don’t believe me!! Frequent flier miles, that’s all she did. And Iraq War.
Or maybe… and I know this is crazy talk, but bear with me… maybe she had a couple of other minor successes? Nothing dramatic, but something?
Even most Republican strategists were shocked by the result. Whether the SDMB is an echo chamber or not has nothing to do with being surprised by an absolutely shocking result that almost no one expected.
I don’t understand how you can not realize how ridiculous you sound. You don’t get “gifted” a Senate seat or the Sec State job unless you’ve put yourself into a certain level of influence. I am not trying to get you to like her but it’s irrational to say a two time Senator, former Secretary of State and millionaire is a failure. She didn’t inherit any of that stuff by simply being born.
Mostly yes.
Uh-oh you failed a purity test!
And that’s another real problem on this board. Jumping to unjustified conclusions and then attacking someone over them. It’s a pretty shady tactic actually.
Oh, the famous liberal hypocrisy? And the motivations and language used to justify it are hypocritical as well.
I 100% totally co-sign this. You are so very, very right. And although I do think the SDMB has its share of blinders on to a ridiculous agree, I think it’s the sound and fury brought about by a smaller subset that causes most of the larger problems. Well said.
Sadly, I think this is true all over. Going by my Facebook and everyone I know who watched Fox News exclusively, echo chambers are the norm these days. We, as a people, have a tendency to fall into only wanting to hear what we like and the ‘other side’ and their views are the enemy. It’s endemic.
Yes. When the folks on this board think I am a conservative, its no longer close to being a balanced board. But that’s not why we got it wrong. We got it wrong because all the polls got it wrong.
To anyone who thinks that following the conventional wisdom on poll aggregation is evidence of the SDMB being an echo chamber: Nate Silver, who still seems to have the shine his name implies, points out that the result was within the margin of error.
And I’ll be on record to be able to shoot at Californians for unilaterally seceding much more easily than I’d shoot Texans. I have relatives there, but they’re not my neighbors, and I’d shoot at my neighbors over such business.
I don’t have anything more eloquent to say about the SDMB than: it’s more of a boxing match than an echo chamber. I’ve taken the minority view on the board more than once. Sometimes I have the stamina to go 20 pages for the cause, and sometimes I don’t. Occasionally, someone drops in at page 35 or so with a cite that transforms the discussion from a matter of interpreting disparate facts and opinion as the truth to trying to mold their (or your) previous version of the truth to the new facts that are now obviously central to the discussion.
I view myself as a moderate (as don’t we all). It generally seems that my side gets its ass kicked around here in feats of logic (which the pit need not apply for) as often as it isn’t. The fact that it’s a boxing match (with formal rules subject to interpretation) instead of a free-for-all is probably what keeps it tolerable for the conservatives that stick around.
The betting markets had Clinton favored the day before the election. PredictIt, which takes American bets, was 80/20. Most people thought Clinton was going to win.
And it’s not like Clinton got trounced by Trump, as the narrative after the election seems to suggest. More people voted for Hillary, she just didn’t win the electoral math.
She didn’t get trounced; she got Gored.