Is the Social Justice Movement Racist? (Content note: Mentions of rape)

Is the Social Justice (SJ) movement racist? Honestly, I’m not sure. I’m trying to puzzle it out. My gut instinct tells me that, yes, the SJ movement is racist. However, I need to qualify what I mean by ‘racist’. I don’t think the SJ movement is overtly racist. I don’t even think that it’s consciously racist. However, I do think there are racist assumptions built into it. To my mind, nowhere is this more evident than in the intersection between rape culture and popular music.

I’m willing to bet that of all the people reading this post, a significant percentage, upon reading the words “‘rape culture’ and popular music” immediately thought of Robin Thicke. If I’d started this thread a few years ago, those same people might have thought of Eminem. Now, I’m not defending either of them. They’re both misogynistic to the bone. But there are plenty of other artists who are equally misogynistic, and equally enthusiastic about rape, who don’t receive a fraction of the negative attention that the SJ movement directs towards Thicke and Eminem. Why is that? I don’t like to say it, but it seems to me that the only salient difference between the musicians that the SJ movement targets as examples of rape culture in action, and the equally misogynistic musicians that the SJ movement ignores, is race. Put bluntly, if you’re a black artist, the SJ movement gives you much more leeway to rhapsodise about rape and woman beating.

Let me give you some examples.

“Nigga, I’m taking yo lover, I mean I’m raping yo lover. Leave her taste in my rubber” - Lil Wayne, Young Playa.

“Tired of my face telling lies gettin’ niggas wives tied up and raped” - Rick Ross, Gunplay.

“Tryin’ to send the bitch back to her maker. And if you got a daughter older then 15, I’mma rape her. Take her on the living room floor, right there in front of you. Then ask you seriously, whatchu wanna do?” - DMX, X is Coming.

“Look she tired of the same old basic, let’s face it. This is how she wants to be laced, I’m raping it” - Ghostface Killa, Killa Lipstick.

“We gonna take this, Point Blank range in your Range Rover. Pistol with the kids and rape your stray ho” - Ja Rule, We Don’t Give A Fuck.

These are all mainstream hip-hop artists, and the important thing to understand here is that I could go on like this all the live long day! Given the sheer extent to which mainstream hip-hop is contaminated by rape endorsing and woman hating lyrics like those above, it baffles me that the genre as a whole doesn’t come under the same sort of scrutiny from the SJ movement as artists like Robin Thicke. Bizarrely, this unwritten rule seems to hold true within individual songs. After all, ‘Blurred Lines’ sent the SJ movement into a collective conniption for what seemed like an eternity, but almost all their outrage was directed toward Thicke himself. Why didn’t Pharrell and T.I. get the same treatment? The three of them wrote it together (well, Marvin Gaye helped, but never mind that). Why did Thicke bear the brunt?

There are only two explanations I can think of, and neither of them are good. The first is that the SJ movement deliberately steers criticism away from black artists for fear of being called racist. The second (and I think this is the more likely one) is that many of the people in the SJ movement suffer from the racism of low expectations. When it comes to addressing rampant misogyny from black artists their attitude seems to be, if only subconsciously, “Meh, they’re black. What do you expect?” In other words, misogyny and rape-fantasy lyrics from black artists don’t shock them as much, because they just don’t surprise them as much.

That’s my theory, anyway. I admit I don’t like holding this theory. As someone who believes in social justice it makes me uncomfortable. I just can’t think of another explanation.

What’s “The Social Justice Movement”? Google doesn’t find anything but a website that is blocked at work.

I know only slightly more than nothing about rap, and I didn’t care for “Blurred Lines” even before I could figure out what the lyrics were.

Regards,
Shodan

The Social Justice Movement is an umbrella term which covers people fighting misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism and other forms of discrimination, either online or in real life. It’s associated online with figures like Anita Sarkeesian and Jessica Valenti.

Jesus Christ those are some awful lyrics. There could be a whole thread just on those lyrics.

I don’t know anything about the Social Justice movement but you can’t tell me that lyrics like that don’t contribute to the way women are treated.

I don’t think racist is the right term for complaining about offensive lyrics by white artists and failing to complain (or complaining less) about offensive lyrics by black artists. First, I’m not sure the “social justice movement” (whatever that is) doesn’t complain about black artists’ offensive lyrics, (I imagine they would) and even if that’s true, maybe they’re centering on the most popular artists. Of all the people listed in the OP, Eminem is the only one I’ve ever heard of.

Really, those are the only two explanations you can think of? Let me offer some hints at other explanations:
Rick Ross, Gunplay video: 873,000 views. (edit: I chose this one because it was second in your list; I couldn’t find an official video for the Lil Wayne song on Youtube at all.)
Robin Thicke, Blurred Lines ft. TI Pherrell video: 373,000,000 views.

You imply that these two songs are equally significant in pop culture. But one simple pop-culture-pulse-taking suggests blurred lines is around 500 times more popular.

You wonder why Thicke catches the heat for Blurred Lines more than Thicke? Maybe it has something to do with who gets top billing in the song, and who’s asked to perform it the most?

And then there’s the much larger and totally absurd implication that in general black men receive less censure for advocacy of violence against women than white men do. Nonsense. How much flak does John Lennon get for committing domestic violence? Eric Clapton? Elvis Presley? How about Chris Brown? Ray McDonald? Adrian Peterson?

If anything, black men receive MORE censure for domestic violence than white men do, or for writing lyrics that promote it. I’m okay with the flak they catch, but not for how much white men get let off easy. The racism you suspect goes in the opposite direction.

Yeah, choosing one of the most popular songs in a decade for a point of comparison regarding critical attention is not going to be very persuasive.

Are there other allegedly rape-encouraging songs by white performers that have received similar scrutiny while also being roughly as popular as the other examples?

Thanks, and welcome to the SDMB. Is it a specific organization, or a movement in more general terms?

Regards,
Shodan

I think what he’s getting at is some kind of notion that the fact that the 5 artists above (all black, and all very popular in the rap/hip-hop community) get no opprobrium for such lyrics from the PC crowd(what he’s calling the “Social Justice Movement”), and Thicke and Eminem gets lambasted for lyrics that are much less overt and raw, must be racist, because Thicke’s white and those guys are black, and nobody seems to care about anyone but Thicke and Eminem’s lyrics.

Personally, I think it’s because the 5 rap/hip-hop guys are all relatively firmly ensconced in their audiences; nobody in their audience cares, and it’s a relatively insular audience that doesn’t give them (or at least those songs) a lot of radio or TV publicity.

Thicke and Eminem by contrast, are Top 40 artists. In Thicke’s case, I think he had the #1 song at some point.

I suspect that’s the bigger issue; Taylor Swift could have a B-side talking about how she likes being choked out during sex, and it wouldn’t have much relative outcry because it wouldn’t be played on the radio, MTV or wherever.

Can we get a ruling on what “misogynistic” means?

Being an asshole and/or a jerk does not make you a misogynist.

I would wager those guys like women. They may treat them badly but that is different.

I am not defending these guy’s character (I am only barely aware of either of them so really have little clue) nor am I saying they treat women well. Just seems to me the word “misogynist” gets tossed out anytime a guy does anything a woman may not like.

This is very similar to arguments that you’re not homophobic if you’re not scared of gay people. And it’s similarly silly. If someone engages in, or advocates, violent behavior specifically against women as a class, it doesn’t matter whether some of their best friends are women: it’s perfectly sensible to call them “misogynist,” and everyone understands what the word means in context.

How is it “very similar”?

Do Eminem and Thicke advocate violence against women? (I really do not know since I do not listen to either and their lyrics were not included in the OP)

Seriously?

Yes. If you’d like me to Google their lyrics for you, I can, but I trust you’ve got access to the same search engines as me. You might use a different word from “advocate,” but that’d be a quibble IMO.

Neither DMX, Ja Rule or Ghostface have had a hit record since the early 2000s. I don’t even think DMX or Ja Rule are still making music. Rick Ross was condemned by the “social justice movement” for his rapey lyrics on “U.O.E.N.O.,” and Reebok dropped him from an endorsement deal because of it.

Yes, seriously.

I have no inclination or desire to go through all their lyrics for all their songs to find the horrible bits. If you want to make the case that they are there then you can point them out.

Ah hell. Here’s some key lines from “Blurred Lines”:

What, my friend, DOES rhyme with hug me, and might show up in a video about date rape?

Edit: ooh, I know! Rugby!

And Eminem:

Yeah, he clearly likes women.

I mean, I know he’s playing a character and all. I get that. I get that it’s complicated. But if you’re asking whether the lyrics are misogynist, yeah they are.

Okay then. In both cases you know exactly what the words mean, what people mean when they use them, but you’re engaging in some sort of semantic bullshit to say people shouldn’t use the words taht way.

The difference is that your complaint–that the word “gets tossed out anytime a guy does anything a woman may not like”–is patently absurd. It’d be akin to arguing that the word “homophobe” gets tossed out any time a straight person does something a gay person doesn’t like.

I presume it would be the latter.

Prevention of misogyny and rape is only part of it. The general idea is to attain a society that passes the veil of ignorance test.

So you’re just here to talk about ethics in gaming journalism, right?

Heh. This is a good catch. Actually, it’s associated online with figures like Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Susan B. Anthony, Harvey Milk, and so on. Seriously, look it up: people talking about social justice online are overwhelmingly talking about the same things as people talking about social justice on the telephone, in newspapers, in books, and in person.

Perhaps the OP meant to bring up the term “social justice warrior,” an overwhelmingly online term used to mock people like Sarkeesian et al, brought into prominence and immediate disfavor by so-called Gamergate.