But it IS Great Debates, so I just want to take a moment to express my sadness that for so many people, these holidays are nothing but an excuse to play around and have fun. If you’re not going to connect to the origins of the day and its meaning, then what’s the point?
Memorial Day should not be about sales at the mall, and these other days shouldn’t be about the parties. Each spring, I read the news and I see which organizations are trying to be part of the St Patrick’s Day Parade, and I just don’t get it, because so many of those groups don’t seem to have any connection to St Patrick himself, or even to Ireland in general.
I am Jewish, and I observe the Jewish holidays as best as I can. I have no more desire to participate in Christmas or Halloween than I have for participating in the Queen’s Birthday. There’s nothing wrong with them - they’re just not relevant to me.
I’m not complaining, I’m not attacking, I’m not accusing anyone of anything. I’m just curious what the motivations are. I suspect that it might boil down to the idea that it is easier to be happy when the people around you are happy, and pre-existing holidays (whatever their origin) are conducive to that.
The secular Christmas celebration is harmless fun. People can choose to celebrate it or not. The secular celebration has surpassed the religious one. That is a good thing in my opinion. Not because of something wrong with the religious holiday, but because it is available for everyone to celebrate a holiday of good cheer, and hopefully a reminder to think of those less fortunate without invoking the divisive effect of religion.
Look, from the Jewish perspective, is Hannukah even that happy a holiday? Sure, we beat the Seleucids, but all that did was draw in the Romans a couple of generations later. And that directly led to Christianity and 2000 years of oppression for the Jews.
Like I said, I’m not complaining. I should have gone further, and should’ve pointed out that if anyone is offended, then I apologize in advance.
There’s nothing wrong with harmless fun, it’s just that I personally prefer productive fun to the harmless kind. Part of that is because I’m religious, but being a nerd and a loner is also a big piece, I’m sure.
We’ve drifted way far from the OP, but I was raised as a Reform Jew, and we never celebrated Christmas. No tree, no presents, no meal. Following the traditions of my people, we typically ordered out Chinese food. We never felt the need to take on the trappings of Christmas, any more than we’d fast during Ramadan. To many people of all faiths (or no faith) the trappings of Christmas were secular. To our family, it wasn’t. No matter how benign, the holiday (and trees, presents, lights, meal) was Christian to us, and more importantly, not part of our heritage.
Now that I’m in a mixed marriage, I take part in the Christmas celebrations. We have a tree, we put up lights, etc. But it’s for my wife, not me.
The origins of Yule period festivities are clouded in the mists of antiquity, but given that they involved plenty of feasting and drinking, it appears that participants were into having fun, whatever additional pagan/religious trappings also existed.
We’re all free to celebrate (or not) Xmas and other holidays as we choose. That some people feel angst at the thought of others have an undeserved good time adds a bit to the enjoyment of these occasions.
But that’s just it-- it’s almost not a choice. Unless you actively resist, you get swept up in it. It’s relentless in its determination to capture everything in its path.
There are even people on this very thread whose attitude has not quite been “Do what you want,” but more “You’re foolish for not joining in with the rest of us.”
I’ve been in the US military, and when the military says something is “voluntary,” that’s code for “You are going to be made unhappy if you don’t.”
That’s more or less what I hear when I hear that Christmas is “optional.” It’s also what I hear when I hear that Christmas isn’t religious. Fer cripes’ sake, it’s right there in the name (and yes, I know what I just did); just calling it “Christmas” makes it Christian.
You’re not wrong, but I hope one day “Christmas” can become like “Thor’s Day” or “Saturn’s Day” for the rest of us.
But that’s my perspective as a non believing Jew who married a no longer Catholic. And I totally sympathize with someone who is living in the US and practicing something other than Christianity.
I understand how you feel, but the rest of the world isn’t going to stop enjoying the fun because it’s associated with a religious holiday. It might help to distract yourself by focusing on hating the music and greed associated with Christmas instead of the religious part.
If Christianity had not made a punching bag out of Judaism for 2,000 years, after appropriating most of it, and from our viewpoint, desecrating it, you might have a point. (And yeah, OK, maybe Jesus himself wasn’t responsible for a lot of the desecration, but it was done by others in his name.)
To us, Christmas is the celebration of the birth of a false messiah, who became a false idol, and a particularly damaging one.
To me it’s a time to give presents to kids. You can choose what it means to you. The secular holiday is not about Jesus and Christian theology. The truly religious dislike the secular celebration as much as you dislike the religious one. So you can learn to enjoy or simply ignore the secular holiday and not end up coincidentally on the same side of those you have an actual problem with,
There is nothing wrong with not liking Christmas due to its religious origins. I don’t think we should be trying to convince people secular Christmas is chill if they have a real problem with the religious side of it. Maybe in a few decades when we’ve won the War on Christmas and fully kicked Christ out of Christmas we could make that argument, but not quite yet.
Thank you. I’m tired of feeling that people are trying to browbeat me into enjoying Christmas. Some people seem to think that unless every single last person is participating, it’s not as good. It shouldn’t matter to other people what I do. There’s no herd immunity to celebrating Christmas. But people sure act as though there is.
I don’t care if anybody enjoys Christmas or not. I’m not browbeating anyone. And I suggested ignoring it is as good as accepting it. We will all make of it what we will.
