Its different mind sets ,the professional athlete who fights for a living even if fighting for his life is used to the idea of beating,hurting or even crippling his opponent preferbly while demonstrating just exactly how good he is .
But a S.F. justs wants to quickly kill his opponent, or disable him so that he can then kill him straight afterwards ,no tactic is too low or unmanly.
Sport ,even extreme sport is still sport .
Business is always business.
[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
With the pro-boxer (I’m thinking Tyson in his prime) would it be possible he could punch the MMA guy silly before the MMA guy could take it to the ground? I’m thinking Tyson coming out and landing a few quick blows and then it’s lights out for the other guy.
[/QUOTE]
For a couple years there I’d have a hard time thinking anyone could get the better of being in a ring with Iron Mike.
Incredible dominance from the starting bell.
[QUOTE=dnooman]
The top UFC and PRIDE guys change every so often, but they are always very, very, formidable.
[/QUOTE]
Define “every so often”. Fedor has been champion for the last 4 years. Ortiz held Light heavyweight for 3 years until losing to Liddell who kept if for 2 years until Jackson beat him. Wanderlei Silva held pride middleweight for 7 years until recently. Hughes held ufc welter for 5 years until recently. I left out Lightweights and Pride Welterweights because they’ve only recently been added in the last couple years but both pride/ufc champions are still holding the belts when the division opened. Gomi for Pride and Sherk for UFC (pending his drug test anyways) and Henderson for Pride welterweight. UFC Middleweight has a turnover rate but it’s weird weight division in my opinion. Welter being 170 and light heavy being 205, they can fight in either division.
[QUOTE=dnooman]
MMA guys train to either KO someone, or make them say “uncle”. Ninjitsu guys, and certain other martial arts train in limb breaking, eye gouging, headbutting, presure points, small digit manipulation, and various other things that MMA fighters are trained not to do. The ingraining of the rules would hamper an MMA fighter in a true “anything goes” match.
[/QUOTE]
Most competitive MMA fighters are multi disciplines. Small joint manips, eye gouges, and pressure points are taught in many generic “karate” schools. My own TKD school taught it to anyone above purple belts. Brazilian juijitsu is widely studied by UFC/Pride/MMA fighters and it teaches the use of pressure points.
Some of these are champions, some are not.
Liddell - Kempo, Brazilian Juijitsu, Koei kan karate
Couture - US army, 3 time Olympic team alternate, 3 time NCAA all american, Muay thai, juijitsu.
Franklin - Brazilian jui-jitsu, Muay Thai, boxing
Saint-Pierre - Kyokusin karate, Brazilian Juijitsu, wrestling, boxing.
Parisyan - Judo, Sambo, catch wrestling, greco roman, and muay thai.
Kang - boxing, jui jitsu
Herring - Sambo, wrestling, muay thai
There have been many incidents of limbs breaking in MMA due to refusal to tap out and failure of the referee to intervene fast enough. Sure they aren’t trained to do it specifically but if you don’t tap out for the referee to see, you’ll get your limb broken. Just off the top of my head, Sakauraba breaking Gracies arm and Mir breaking Silvias arm. I won’t even include the amateur league ones that are available on liveleak or break.com. I can only think of one incident when an MMA fighter actually stopped himself from it was Hughes vs Royce. He had a side mounted armbar and released it because he did not want to break Royces arm.
[QUOTE=dnooman]
Um, that was a “lucky” knee. I’m fairly sure that special forces guys are aware of using the knee as a weapon.
[/QUOTE]
Watch again. That was not luck. The ‘special forces guy’ came in low (I’m guessing as per his training) Kerr saw the opening (exposed head) and threw a knee to it. Special forces are not trained to throw knees. They are not trained to fight, they are trained to end it before it becomes a fight when fighting ordinary soldiers. You are grossly under-estimating the large size, strength and over all training of MMA guys.
Different MMA associations have different rules. Most UFC fighters have to work at not using more dangerous techniques. And you seem to be assuming that under life and death circumstances they wouldn’t go all out regardless of how they were trained.
I say again, the MMA contests were started for the sole purpose of comparing techniques and styles. The early contests were full of Special forces guys. After people started training for the contests specifically, the special forces guys started losing to the point of not competing much any more.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
For a couple years there I’d have a hard time thinking anyone could get the better of being in a ring with Iron Mike.
Incredible dominance from the starting bell.
[/QUOTE]
I was thinking about this post, and remembered the fears that Foreman was going to literally kill Ali.
Even so, some of his fights Tyson really came across as an unstoppable force.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
I was thinking about this post, and remembered the fears that Foreman was going to literally kill Ali.
Even so, some of his fights Tyson really came across as an unstoppable force.
[/QUOTE]
Except Tyson would be vulnerable to a low attack or a foot sweep. If some big rambling grappler dove at Tyson’s thighs and took him to the mat it’d be over.
Plus, would Tyson be the same without gloves on? He’s not used to grabbing opponents or hitting skull with raw knuckles.
Without gloves I’d have put money on a guy like Tank Abbot over Tyson in a UFC type fight. Neither had much stamina but Abbot could take a punch and was extremely fierce, while Tyson was shown not to be able to take a punch.
[QUOTE=Burrido]
I won’t even include the amateur league ones that are available on liveleak or break.com. I can only think of one incident when an MMA fighter actually stopped himself from it was Hughes vs Royce. He had a side mounted armbar and released it because he did not want to break Royces arm.
[/QUOTE]
Not to nitpick, but I think you’ll find a sidemount armbar of the form Hughes had gracie in an extremely, extremely hard armbar to break something in. Hughes switched because he wasnt tapping, and beyond a certain point (in THIS specific armbar) it is very difficult to apply more pressure once the victims wrist is already bent to the mat with the elbow above the forearm.
Correct, I should of put that in quotes.
Hughes stated after the fight, “he let go of the armbar because he did not want to break Gracie’s arm”. Wether he could or not I don’t know. The angle looks like it could go either way.
http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article.php?article=4382
[QUOTE=Burrido]
Correct, I should of put that in quotes.
Hughes stated after the fight, “he let go of the armbar because he did not want to break Gracie’s arm”. Wether he could or not I don’t know. The angle looks like it could go either way.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough 
Take the 'roids and HGH away from the UFC fighters and I wouldn’t bet a penny on them.
[QUOTE=T_SQUARE]
My purpose behind the question was just to get insight as to whether or not someone who fights competitively, as a career, is indeed the best at it there is.
[/QUOTE]
Best at what? Your conditions basically define “it” as UFC to the death. UFC specialists will probably do very well. Special Ops guys don’t fight in the UFC, and there’s almost zero chance they will ever wind up in that sort of combat, so there’s no reason for them to be the best at a UFC style fight.
Put Mr. UFC out in the wilderness alone with Taliban fighters trying to track him down, I’m not sure he survives, but a Special Ops guy has a chance.
[QUOTE=Philster]
Take the 'roids and HGH away from the UFC fighters and I wouldn’t bet a penny on them.
[/QUOTE]
Right, that’s why only the biggest and strongest fighters dominate all the top levels of MMA.
Oh wait, no they don’t.
I guess it’s just a coincidence that multiple champs, like Gracie, were busted for steroid use.
Another question - where is the fight held? In a ring, or in a realistic setting in which the combatants are allowed to manufacture weapons out of whatever they might encounter? If the latter, the odds might shift somewhat in favor of guys with weapons training.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Another question - where is the fight held?
[/QUOTE]
The mastermind’s hidden island stronghold. It’s traditional.
The most dangerous person on the planet? That would be Jack Bauer.
[QUOTE=Philster]
I guess it’s just a coincidence that multiple champs, like Gracie, were busted for steroid use.
[/QUOTE]
You are correct but to nitpick Gracie wasn’t champ when he got caught. He was 40 years old, in the twilight of his career, and fighting in a minor league. I’ll concede Sherk, he was always way too big for 155. Guy looked like a solid 180+. Silvia was busted and supposedly came back clean to regain the title.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some mean looking 'roid possible dudes. But there are great fighters and champions that have a natural looking bodies. Hardly in line with hgh/roids users dominating MMA like in my previous post.
Fedor. Pride Heavyweight Champ and widely recognized to be the number 1 MMA fighter across all leagues.
http://combatnews.blogspirit.com/album/pride/fedor_20winner.3.jpg
Matt Serra. UFC Welterweight Champ. 5’6".
http://sherdog.com/fightfinder/Pictures/Serra2.JPG
Bj Penn.
http://www.rumbleworld.tv/news/images/bjpenn_belt.jpg
Anderson Silva. UFC Middleweight Champ.
Mauricio Rua. Most dangerous person at 205 in any league. (guy on left)
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/3060-ShogunGomi.jpg
Kazushi Sakuraba. One of the best ever.
http://www.showdown.ca/Images/Kazushi%20Sakuraba_01.jpg
Plus I’m sure there is NO way ( :rolleyes: ) Spec Ops EVAH use steroids. Never known three of em to do so, nope, never.