In a one on one, hand to hand fight to the finish with no rules, I would think the top UFC champ would be impossible to beat.
Would anyone else on the planet even have a chance? Could a heavyweight boxer, pure eastern martial arts master, power lifter, world strongest man champ, or really, really huge guy (7’ type of guy), or Chuck Norris even have a chance?
Where are they? Are weapons ruled out, even things that can be used as a weapon?
Yes, any and all weapons are ruled out, including gloves and boots.
We will say they they are in a large empty room. Larger than a ring, but not so large one can outrun the other guy to death, or use any odd tactic like that.
You presume that everyone that is a real badass “streetfighter” type is in the UFC. I think that there may be some out there in branches of the Armed Services or other places who, for varied reasons, don’t fight in UFC or any of the other MMA areas.
Also, you’re forgetting Snake Pliskin(sp?).
But anyway, I think the champion from PRIDE fighting in Japan might have an advantage in a real fight. For one thing, they allow kicks and stomps to the head of a downed opponent. That series always looks a little more dangerous and real to me than the UFC.
Also, for a mixed-martial-artist to be the best it would probably have to take place in a padded ring or cage. In a street you can be taken right out by hitting your head on the ground, so it changes things. In general things are going to be very different if eye-gouging is allowed, because that would rule out a lot of the grappling positions they use in the UFC.
I’d look at what systems are taught by militaries around the world. Ideally you’d have someone who trains full-time like in the UFC, but incoprating more of the techniques you see in the military. If anyone would beat the top mixed martial-artists, I would think it would be an elite special-forces operator. I don’t think any of them would train quite so much in hand-to-hand, but they might have an advantage in actually having fought to the death in war before. I’m just speculating though.
Powerlifters, strongmen and really huge guys don’t necessarily have an advantage in a fight just because they’re powerlifters, strongmen and really huge guys. Boxers and martial artists might, if only because the UFC rules favor a certain fighting style, and the UFC champ may not have much experience fighting outside those rules (although I wonder how likely that is).
It’s important to remember that even UFC or Pride isn’t an all out brawl. There are still many moves that are disallowed that would likely be very useful in a matter of life and death. I agree with riker that no rules would probably make a lot of MMA styles obsolete.
With that being SAID, though, I wouldn’t be surprised if some fighters are familiar with styles not allowed in traditional MMA. Mirko “Crocop” Filipović is in the Croatian anti-terrorist unit so I’d imagine he’s familiar with good variety of fighting styles that may be more useful in a life/death brawl.
UFC, and similar organized types of fighting, have one very serious drawback, when you’re looking to define “who is most dangerous.” They’re supremely agressive and skilled, but they’re not killers. They’ve been specifically trained and conditioned to quit before killing.
There are other people out there, whom are killers. People whom have been specifically trained and conditioned to not quit until their opponent is dead.
Bear that in mind when thinking about “who is most dangerous.”
Well, if I’m prepared…
The top UFC champ right now would lose to the top Pride champion. Fedor is unbeatable at this moment. Heavyweight boxer would be at a severe disadvantage because of no ground game. Pure eastern art would suffer from being too one dimensional. Strong men haven’t done too well because it’s generally about conditioning at that level. Google Bob Sapp.
I would have to disagree with this statement. Beating a guy into submission and then not knowing what to do then? How about rear nakkid choke until they pass out? Would they just stand around wondering what to do next? Personally I wouldn’t think they would. They are extremely versatile fighters who can and do compete in other leagues with different rule sets. UFC, Pride, and other toughman organizations all have their own rules.
No, I didn’t say they didn’t know what to do. I said they’re trained to not do it. Up to unconsciousness? Sure. Up to death rattle and suddenly loosend sphincters? They don’t go there, save by horrible mischance. Skills and agression not withstanding, they’re not, fundamentally, killers. But there are people out there who will not hesitate, will not think twice, and are in fact trained to not hesitate. Mindset is as important to how dangerous a person is as skills are. The willingness to snuff out another life without hesitation is, thank whatever you believe in, a fairly rare thing. But those who possess it are much more dangerous than those who don’t.
Actually this question is easily answered because a former UFC champion is a host of the History Channel show “The Human Weapon.”
He has been beaten so far by experts in Muay Thai and Escrima. The Escrima guy broke his finger I think. He was not knocked out in either fight, but he did have his ass handed to him.
I only saw the 1st 2/3 of the MT ep, but found it moderately interesting, and a reasonably accurate if superficial discussion of some aspects of MT. Lots of silly filler, sure, but some good stuff nonetheless. IIRC, the premise was that one of the 2 hosts would fight a MT fighter in a MT match. So that wouldn’t really answer the OP’s question about “hand-to-hand combat.” They were going to be fighting a MT bout.
I didn’t see the actual bout. The fat bald guy kept saying things like “I’m going to use my weight to my advantage,” but it was clear the other guy was the better fighter.
The UFC champs are all tough mofos. But there are plenty of tough mofos out there who - for various reasons - don’t choose to glove up inside a ring. And there are plenty of unarmed techniques (kina mutai anyone?) that do not translate well to staged competitions.
You also have to realize that those “Bad Ass” special OP “Killers,” while they train regularly, do not do so at the same level as a UFC athlete. They have knowledge of how to kill, but rarely are they practiced, and in this day and age, rarely are they used. Even if they are, it is probably once a month or so.
In terms of reflex, speed and decisiveness, the UFC champion wins hands down. It doesn’t matter if you have killed before or even if you know 10 ways to kill a person, if it isn’t reflex, you aren’t practiced at it, and you don’t have a hell of a lot of experience in incorporating it in the heat of battle, it isn’t going to do shit for you.
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UFC champs? They train every day, fight every day (in training if not in competition), and every move is practiced so many times in a given month that they probably don’t even have to think about it. There probably isn’t a Spec Ops person that is THAT bad ass, outside of the movies and some geeks imagination.
Put the MT expert in the ring and let a no-hold UFC style fight go down and see who wins then. It isn’t a surprise that if you limit yourself to a match in one martial art style, and go against the best of the best of that martial art, you will lose. Take away that limitation of using only MT moves, and I bet he would have won.
One thing I learned from fighting a lot is that every day can’t be your day. I guess that’s where that saying comes from.You win some, you lose some.
But you are correct. One thing I have learned in my ‘exposure’ (read: witnessed things I wouldn’t spray paint on an overpass) to people who really are machined to neutralize another human being is that your nerve and your focus are your best weapons.
Respectfully disagree. Though top-level UFC fighters train more often, we are talking about two completely different types of training. Your upper level UFC fighter is training to fight to the best of his ability, and it is a skill that is utilized in a voluntary sense in that you have control of your actions and you are planning attacks and moves, etc. It is a thing of beauty, a dance, if you will.
Your most effective Spec Ops soldiers are trained to react in an almost completely involuntary manner. After months of physical and mental abuse and having tactics and methods flash-fried into your brain and after having everything that makes you who you are plasticized forevermore into something fundamentally pavlovian and leonine, galvanized as nothing short of a weapon…
Can a UFC fighter lose an eye and have it absolutely not factor in, even for a fleeting moment? Because that is precisely the kind of discipline it takes to win a fight against someone ‘smithed’ into neutralizing another human being.
Depends on the fighter, I’d say. I can’t imagine why not though. Unless he sees it plucked from his skull with his other eye, he might just think it is damaged and continue fighting. Sometimes in a fight, blood gets in your eye and you can’t see. Doesn’t stop any decent fighter. Hinders them, perhaps, but never stops them.
I think you (general you), VASTLY overestimate the training of a Special OP person. Very little hand to hand is going on. Learning to defend one self is important, but is pretty trivialized by the US military. You are training an army of soldiers, (and yes, even the special ops) not an army of fighters. Solders use weapons and strategy, not skill at hand to hand fighting, and thus, spending hours and hours training how to kill with your bare hands is a waste of time and money for the government.
Special OPs are trained to endure special circumstances, to be able to take a lot of abuse and still keep on ticking, to use any weapon they can and many other various tasks that DO NOT include some uber bad ass hand to hand fighting.
A UFC person fighting a Marine Recon would more than likely win if the fight is hand to hand. Give the Marine a gun, a mission and throw a hundred UFC fighters at him and he will win, sure, hand to hand… No way.
Sorry, your supposition that Special ops spend all their time training to be ultra bad ass ninja killers makes me think you have never been in the Military. I could be wrong, but if so I think you have been misled.
I never mentioned the ‘n’ word because I’m not crazy enough to speak of them. They have Real Ultimate Power. Why would you want to stir that up?
And I was never in the military. I have, however, spent considerable time training under a man who was once rated as the number one fighter for region eight in Karate Kung-Fu Illustrated magazine. He was nationally rated as a fighter from number twenty to number four at one time in 1987. He also appeared on a list of nationally rated forms competitors in the top ten, three years after he retired from competition. He has earned black belts in Taekwondo and Shoringi Kenpo, he has a tested Black Belt in Tangsoodo, He holds an honorary Black Belt Certificate in Kenkabo. He also served in Spec Ops up until the early to mid eighties. His military service is what he credits for shaping him into what became of him in the martial arts world. My experiences with him were nothing short of life changing. Frankly, I don’t see a UFC fighter in the world defeating him in a location of your choosing (in his prime, I mean–doubtful he’d be much competition today).
That is something different however. A special ops that has a hobby of martial arts. The Spec OPs training likely gave him an edge, but what makes him a true bad ass is his extra-curricular training, not the Spec Ops. (though bad ass for different reasons)
And I have ninja friends, they will protect me. 