Is the "Trump phenomenon" localized to the U.S.?

[Hector_St_Clare]

There’s nothing ‘ethnic’ in any way, shape, or form about Al Qaeda, and I don’t know enough about ISIS to say but I strongly doubt it for them either. They’re founded around religious ideology, not ethnic identity.

@Wesley_Clark

Isn’t the rise of AL Qaeda and ISL arguably a form of authoritarian ethnic nationalism?

Religious fundamentalism and right wing authoritarianism are correlated.

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/religious_fundamentalism_means_authoritarianism_and_prejudice/

http://scp.sagepub.com/content/61/1/92.abstract

Authoritarianism, religious fundamentalism, and the human prefrontal cortex - PMC

On the subject of this debate topic, most of latin america underwent a leftward political trend about 10 years ago. It was called the pink tide.

[Hector_St_Clare]

@Jragon

There’s definitely been a tilt towards authoritarian ethnic nationalism across the world, though in Europe the tide seems to have reversed a little after Brexit.

I don’t really think so. Norbert Hofer was essentially tied with his opponent in the Austrian presidential runoff in late May (IIRC- he barely lost in the final vote, but the vote was annulled because of irregularities). The election is going to be held again in a couple weeks and he’s been leading in the polling since July. At least in Austria and eastern Europe, authoritarian ethnonationalism is on the rise, not the wane.

[LSLGuy]

@Hector_St_Clare

There’s nothing ‘ethnic’ in any way, shape, or form about Al Qaeda, and I don’t know enough about ISIS to say but I strongly doubt it for them either. They’re founded around religious ideology, not ethnic identity.

They’re certainly religiously motivated.

I wonder how much the Shia/Sunni divide is viewed by each side as being religious versus ethnic? I’m also not sure where the Arab vs. Persian divide sits in this febrile stew of hate.

I know that in the case of the Northern Irish Troubles although the two sides are labeled “Catholic” and “Protestant” pretty quickly it came down to ethnic differences: Those people don’t / shouldn’t breed with Our people. Issues of which churchly ceremonies to follow had zippo to do with it.

Certainly that’s not ethnic in the narrow sense of differently colored skin.

Maybe we ought to set aside the word “ethnic” as too wooly. It’s all tribalism, regardless of which criteria folks are using to separate Us from Them.

So Jragon’s phrase would become “authoritarian tribal nationalism”.

[up_the_junction]

@jz78817

I occasionally listen to David Axelrod’s “The Axe Files” podcast. but I’ve listened to the one he did with Jon Stewart many times over. One of the points they touched on is that nationalism/nativism is steadily creeping throughout Western society. Everybody’s talking about Donald Trump because we’re the noisiest about it, but as Axelrod pointed out there are Trump-like figures throughout Europe. Besides “Brexit,” you have people like the aforementioned Marine Le Pen and Norbert Hofer.

This is better understood as a reaction to neo-liberalism and the happy-clappy version of globalisation. Those guys might just be starting to get it as I see Obama finally made a sensible speech in Athens:

Obama calls for ‘course correction’ to share spoils of globalisation

Barack Obama has warned that a backlash against globalisation is boosting populist movements both at home and abroad and called for a “course correction” so the benefits of an increasingly interconnected world are shared more equally.

At least a week late but hey …

[Grey]

Third, we need to set aside the belief that government cannot do anything about reducing inequality. It’s true that government cannot prevent all the downsides of the technological change and global competition that are out there right now, and some of those forces are also some of the things that are helping us grow. And it’s also true that some programs in the past, like welfare before it was reformed, were sometimes poorly designed, created disincentives to work.

But we’ve also seen how government action time and again can make an enormous difference in increasing opportunity and bolstering ladders into the middle class.

• Barack Obama 2013

[septimus]

@Jragon

There’s definitely been a tilt towards authoritarian ethnic nationalism across the world, though in Europe the tide seems to have reversed a little after Brexit.

Are you saying the Brexit surprise has smartened up other Europeans? (I don’t want to hijack the thread so just send me a PM if you know the answer(s), but: Would UK vote Leave if the referendum were taken again, now? Will the Exit actually occur?)

@Mangetout

The people who lived through WWII’s horrific outcomes of nationalism and blaming-the-foreigner-amongst-you, and experienced them firsthand in real time, are dying off.

In other words, we’re busy forgetting the past. So soon, we will be condemned to repeat it.

Very interesting. We’d like to hope you’re wrong, but with the likely Putin-Trump axis, things could get dire very soon even without the Beast of Central Europe reappearing. Note that the Greatest Generation is old enough to have very little voting power; it was the next Generation — born in Vetsville and raised in “boxes made of ticky-tacky” — that elected the short-fingered showman.

@quimper

because everyone refuses to acknowledge the elephant in the room: Globalization has made losers out of the Western working classes. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

There is some natural tendency for 1st-world and 3rd-world wages to move toward each other. Is there a detailed scholarly projection? Should politicians have been honest on this issue, if they think American wages cannot be maintained? (In effect, by voting against minimum-wage laws, the GOP is acknowledging the fall. OTOH, at least in the short and middle term, Europe proves U.S. gloom is premature or misplaced — France, etc. have worker wages much higher than U.S. if measured as purchasing power per worked hour.)

I skimmed the thread clicking quote till I got to quimper’s #11; then just clicked Reply. What did I miss?

[Jragon]

@septimus

Are you saying the Brexit surprise has smartened up other Europeans? (I don’t want to hijack the thread so just send me a PM if you know the answer(s), but: Would UK vote Leave if the referendum were taken again, now? Will the Exit actually occur?)

No, just giving a time frame for the countries I’ve looked at the elections of. I don’t know if Brexit influenced anything.

Either way, from others’ responses I was off the mark anyway and it’s still on the rise in several places.