Heh, all the weddings I’ve attended have been reasonably informal affairs; in fact, at the last wedding I attended, the bride and groom were wearing Star Wars costumes! (As a matter of fact, I was there in my stormtrooper armor, as a member of a sort of “honor guard” dispatched by the local 501st Garrison. :D)
You aren’t describing an informal wedding but a specialized one! Black tie, white tie, tuxedos & good suits are all fine for weddings. I’ve also seen grooms in uniform (US Armed Forces–not The Empire!) Men in kilts? Yup! And I’ve seen weddings at the Texas RenFest.
I enjoy it when people Make An Effort to dress up. The ones who amble in wearing dirty t-shirts, cut-offs & flip-flops appall me.
(And I’ve gladly Made An Effort in various types of female costume!)
Got a picture?
Oops.
Bricker and I are not members of the same organization. I’m a Past Exalted Ruler (president) of an Elks Lodge.
We wear our tuxedos once a month on new member initiation night.
But I’ll agree that it is very impressive in any organization to see the officers all decked out in tuxedos. And now, in the Elks, the lady officers as well!
I probably wear my tuxedo about 10 times a year, maybe fewer. I honestly couldn’t name a friend or family member who doesn’t own one. I suspect this tradition, like many others, will die harder in the South.
I wore a swallowtail coat and a top-hat to my wedding. I had to buy the top-had, so I still have that. While it does not have the typical glossy silk plush finish, it nevertheless does have the proper shape, curving inward in the middle of the crown as you go up. My wife’s attire was modeled after Ginger Rogers.
I was wearing a short beard at the time, so I’m sure many of the other passengers on the boat thought I was going to be playing Abraham Lincoln in some local theatrical.
Nobody would have mistaken me for Fred Astaire under any circumstances.
I have a morning coat and sponge-bag trousers (no top hat, since my invitation to Ascot seems to have been lost in the mail), which my brother had tailored for me (and the other groomsmen) for his wedding. The tailor (in England) admonished me never to wear them after seven o’clock.
I did him one better- I haven’t worn them since, except to amuse my girlfriend.
Nobody has a tux because nobody goes to black-tie events anymore, at least not outside Hollywood, Monaco and the Grand Hotel. A suit is what you wear to weddings and funerals, unless you’re in the wedding party, and then you’ll have to rent to match the others anyway.
What really bothers me is when people don’t show up to weddings in even a suit. Yes, slacks and a polo are acceptable in your office, but this isn’t your office. It’s a wedding.
I know, my brother wore shorts and sandals to my wedding. What can you do?
Get married in a field full of scorpions.
Do you similarly lament the loss of the stovepipe hat? the frock coat? the ruff collar? the toga? Shit changes.
I’m all for a person dressing how he or she chooses. You’ll never lose that power.
What you seem to be lamenting is the loss of social pressure to make everyone else bow to your preferences.
“Gentleman” means something more than just a manner of dress. There is a lot of social and political baggage associated with the idea of a “gentleman” that a lot of people, perhaps, don’t miss at all. When the position itself is no longer a desirable one, why would people continue to aspire to the uniform?
My wife’s brother wore jeans and an NRA T-shirt to our wedding.
I can tell by that one sentence that you two are probably very close. 
Twenty years ago, I bought a used tux from a rental shop for $150, and it has served me well ever since. I’ve considered buying something nicer, but I’ve found less and less use for a tux as time goes by.
It’s true that each time I’ve gotten married, I’ve been obliged to rent something nicer for the ceremony, because my old one was a little too worn. That doesn’t happen that often, though.
One can sidestep this somewhat by wearing Scottish Highland dress to both, and while my black barathea Prince Charlie is more correctly formal than semi-formal the sassenachs don’t seem to notice. 
That statement is incredibly depressing. What, pray, is so awful about being a gentleman that requires its strictures and creeds to be shaken off? The old saying is that clothes make the man, but it is as true today as it was back then that clothes don’t “make” a gentleman–character is not in a necktie or choice of shoes; character is found in any man respecting others and treating them appropriately and politely.
I like a man with decent clothes sense–I don’t want a GQ cover boy, but a man who knows how to dress and what is appropriate dress(but he could still be a cad. An old fashioned word, but the right one here). I lament the dying of adult clothes. My husband got married in a morning suit. I don’t much see the need for the white dinner jacket, but I love that men here still wear them. Dressing up for formal occasions shows respect for the hosts of that occasion as well as respect for the rite of passage that occasion represents. I understand that one may not wear formal wear to a night club or charity event any longer–but a wedding or funeral? A christening or bris? A gentleman will dress as the occasion demands. A Stars Wars wedding (may god help us all) demands a, er, storm trooper uniform.
I also find it almost impossible to believe that anyone in this country, no matter how poor, did not own a second shirt or suit of clothes that they used for such occasions. Even pioneers had clean collars etc–social mores demanded it. Old daguerreotypes show this. Time was when someone who could not dress appropriately stayed home out of deference to the etiquette of the that occasion. Now they show up and even dare to mock those with better manners for showing their respect. Amazing times we live in.
In harder times, people wanted to live up to standards; now that life is easy (and make no mistake, life is very much easier today than in pioneer times), we all want to stay in our rompers, throwing temper tantrums when we can’t “be comfortable” at all times. Formal wear doesn’t have to be uncomfortable–if it fits well, it’s no different than business attire (for men).
To each his own, of course. But I am glad that there are still standards and that there are some men who still aspire to such standards. I have done my best to instill these standards in my sons and daughter–I know they will stand them in good stead.
Just for example, among the ideas encompassed in “gentleman”:
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A person who does have to work for a living; thus, a person who lives off the labor of others.
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A person who is granted privileges and rights based solely on his status that are not granted to others, such as special favors from persons holding positions of authority, such as law enforcement personnel.
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A man, who merely by his sex and station, is due deference and special privileges that are not granted, necessarily to women.
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A person who is expected to behave consistent with a specific standard of decorum and moral and ethical behavior, but only with respect to other gentlemen. A gentleman is free to deal abusively, harshly, or without mercy with respect to someone from a lower order.
The essential characteristic of the concept of a “gentleman” is a person of privilege and it has little meaning when divorced from the notion that most people are excluded from enjoying such privilege.
All that stuff about good manners and breeding and dress are just part of the shadowpuppetry to try to give it legitimacy, to aide in assuring people who were not granted such privilege that this is how things should be and if you weren’t on the inside then maybe that was justice too.
Everyone was expected to be polite and fair and honest. The advantage of being a gentleman was that given certain circumstances (such as in dealings with a non-gentleman), you had the option of being impolite, unfair, and dishonest.
There were no “good old days.” It’s advisable to hold nostalgia up to a skeptical eye.
Such social standards, to a large extent, were created by a select few and applied for their benefit. They were in place in order to ensure that the limited resources available to society were preserved for the enjoyment of the few and not diluted too much by letting too many people into the club.
Nail on the head! – Too poor to meet the superficial sartorial standards of the ruling class? Well, then, the advantages and pleasures of social interaction are denied to you. We should all dance on the grave of such an evil social system.
Missed edit window:
… Good example of shame being used as a tool to enforce the status quo.
What, the Bolsheviks are at the gates already? I never heard that a gentleman, in the traditional sense, was not a desirable thing to be, though I will admit the very term has become tainted and I would not use it in any serious sense. However, the taint comes not from any class status that might have once defined a gentlemen, nor careful attention to appearance and manners that defined it later. Instead, it comes partly from the use of the word ‘gentleman’ to avoid any possible hint of offense. During the Rodney King riots, I remember seeing a clip of a man trying to break a plate glass window with a trash barrel–and the newsreader repeatedly referred to him as a gentleman. More recently, “gentlemen’s club” has come to mean a strip club, further dragging the term in the gutter. I’ve also heard the word used to describe vaguely any older male who might offer unwanted attention to young women or girls–or even boys.
I agree with those who miss the days of dressing up. I was a much more conservative dresser in college (late 1970s) than I am now, liking especially corduroy sport jackets and, most of the time, not owning anything made out of denim (though I did have lots of corduroy Levi’s). I liked the way the Omega seniors dressed in “Animal House”, and for that matter the Deltas, too, though I felt that a sport jacket was absolutely necessary to make the outfit. Similarly I like fedoras, Panamas, porkpies, and similar traditional headgear. But I don’t wear any of that stuff, except when absolutely necessary. I live in L.A. It’s too hot for clothes like that all year round. I walk to places when I can, and no matter what time of year it is, if I wear any more outerwear than a medium weight pullover sweater, I soon get too warm as I walk along. Ditto with the hat, even though I’m mostly bald. A sweater I can take off and tie around my waist, but a hat would have to be carried, as would a suit or sportjacket. I hate, hate, hate walking for blocks and blocks having to carry a hat or jacket in my hand or on my arm. So these days I’m glad things are so laid back around here. I’m now a jeans and t-shirt guy.
Ah. I didn’t realize we had such outdated thinking here on the Dope. Jesus–I was not referring to the landed gentry–since when have we had that in the USA? We ALL live off the labors of others nowadays–some of them in third world countries. Welcome to the gentry class, acsenray. (you need a “not” after “does”–and even that definition has changed since WW2).
You have got to be kidding me. Where are you pulling this shit from–Gone With the Wind? Or old Agatha Christie novels? And you’re wrong re women: she is either a gentlewoman or a lady (not to be confused with a Lady).
Cite? IMO, a gentleman is someone who is expected to behave appropriately and adhere to a standard of decorum and civility to ALL persons, not just other “gentlemen”. Are you planning on storming the Bastille soon? Lower order? Hell, even Wooster didn’t come out and spout that crap–Jeeves would have had something to say to him about that.
Well, bless your little proletariat heart. And here I was, teaching my sons manners and how to eat using proper utensils so as not to embarrass themselves at table. Little did I know I was standing on the necks of the poor, huddled masses, yearning to breathe free (of cummerbunds and bowties). Pardon me, but you sound more than a tad bitter. I was unaware of the vast conspiracy to keep you and your casually dressed peers down in the midden. The shades have been dashed from my eyes and now I see clearly. The bastards–polishing their shoes and carrying handkerchiefs. Why, they probably ask a lady if she would like to go first in line! Ye gods–the fiends will stop at nothing!
You seem to have an antiquated notion of what being a gentleman entails. Let me give an analogy that might help: it was once thought that no lady would ever paint her face. As our society became more complex, the notion of “lady” also changed. Note, though, that there is no swinging of the pendulum all the other way: using makeup is not a requirement of being a lady. Much the same could be said of the gentleman “concept”.
Really? Seems to me that being unfair, dishonest and impolite knows no bounds–no matter your class. That is as true today as it ever was, and will be true 100 years from now. As I said before, clothes may make the man, but they do not make the gentleman.
Oh, sweetie. You are obviously so young that you just don’t know yet.
Actually, I agree with you to a certain extent here. Yes, etiquette was (and still is) used as a weapon to exclude, to ostracize, to humiliate. But here is the catch:* it is used that way by those whose claim to the status of lady or gentleman is shown to be false by the very behavior they exhibit.* See any of Miss Manners books for more info.
This is just not true. History is littered with accounts that prove this untrue. Yes, poor people could not aspire to the glittering lifestyles and complicated social etiquette that ruled the Four Hundred, but almost all social classes in modern history has had its share of customs, mores and yes, dress that distinguish special occasions from the every day. As I said, even the pioneers (or the coal miner) had a clean collar to wear to church or to a funeral etc.
I can see that you are quite exercised by the notion of wearing a slightly different outfit just because. You are free to do whatever you want in this world regarding your attire. I am free to consider you not a gentleman–not because you cannot afford a tux, but because you insist on being stridently offensive about a simple choice. Rudeness is not acceptable in gentlefolk, one can, however, kill another with kindness…
My husband wore a rented morning suit for our wedding. He also owns both a tuxedo and a tailsuit (the latter being tailored for ballroom dance competition, but suitable for evening wear as well).