–I’m currently a senior in a high school in Alberta and I’m planning on going to one of the following universities: U of Alberta/Toronto/Waterloo.
–I’ve been accepted to Toronto/Waterloo as a CE student, but I may want to change my major later (maybe to EE or EScience). I’ve, essentially, been accepted to the general engineering program at Alberta (it’s a completely common first year and people have to compete for spots into their program the next year).
–I plan on staying at home if I go to Alberta, and living in rez if I go to Toronto/Waterloo.
–I recently visited all three universities and I definitely liked the Waterloo campus the most, but I’m not sure of the academics since I had never heard of the U of W until my teacher recommended it to me. I also know that Toronto has a good reputation in Canada, but am unsure of Alberta.
So, given the above, what’s the best choice? (I know that personal preference is very important, but I’d still like to know other peoples’ opinions.) I would also definitely like to hear the opinions of any alumni of these three universities.
I am an alumni of neither Waterloo or Toronto, but I can tell you that in Ontario, Waterloo has an excellent reputation for undergrad science. It’s almost universally assumed that if science is your bag, Waterloo should be at the top of your choice list.
On the other hand, if Civil Engineering is your thing, do not dismiss Queen’s University in Kingston, which has a strong applied science program and probably the best campus in the province. Toronto is also very good.
As a 7 year veteran of the engineering department at UW, I can share a few thoughts:
first year eng is not general, but the department is very supportive of transfers in the first two terms provided you can keep your grades up. I mention this because I got into one of the programs lower on the food chain (chem) thinking I could trade up if I wanted to (systems was my other choice). Well, a crappy calculus mark in 1A term and I was stuck. Thankfully a career in chem has turned out pretty well… Of course if you have been accepted into CE you are already quite high up the evolutionary ladder and could probably pick any department if you decided to switch
UW prides themselves on their comp. and comm tech infrastructure. I know they have poured oodles of money into the CE and EE depts in the last few years (I think in 2000 they doubled the size of the entering EE class).
rated at or near the top of all ontario “non-medical” schools in the Macleans survey for a bunch of years in a row now, since before I graduated
co-op, co-op, co-op. In the absence of a serious substance abuse or comic-book purchasing habit, you can easily make the $$$ to support yourself during your 6 co-op terms. Short terms mean less depth but a lot more breadth, being able to work for 3-6 different companies during the 5 years of your degree. OTOH, your summers are not free (although summer work terms are relatively so). OTOOH, campus in the summer can be a real blast. OTOOOH, campus in the summer can be a little too much fun. DAMHIKT. Also as a CE or CS candidate from UW, you are essentially goldplated. The school is renowned for its comp sci, comp eng and EE graduates. Job placement rates in those divisions (excluding the clueless first year students) were always approaching 100% even in bad years. (with respect to co-op that is, I have no data on post-grad placement but I assume it is as good or better)
unless you are starving for BIG BIG CITY life, waterloo is a nice place to live. I would have happily stayed there had I been able to find a job in my field. The campus is not "classically"attractive, with its share of nasty 60s and 70s cement block architechture, but is nowhere near as bad as mcmaster in this regard. Campus layout is pleasant, residences are relatively close by and I came to enjoy the mixture of building styles after a while. (the summer before I started I spent some time in oxford, england, so relative to that standard it was someting of a letdown appearance-wise)
relative to TO your cost of living will be substantially less at UW
some downsides that spring to mind:
-geeky image of UW. Although I think this has changed quite a bit.
higher tuition incl co-op fees than most other ontario schools. (presumably you would have to eat some out of province fees as well…)
when I was there the ontarians benefitted from grade 13, and I know several classmates of mine from Man. and Alta. took a bit of a beating in first year. I don’t know how the cirriculum has changed now that G13 is gone, but this is something you might look into.
well, this is long enough. Email me if you have any other questions, and goot luck in your decision.
I have several friends who went to Waterloo in Chem and CompSci.
Two warnings: if you get a job during your co-op term shovelling coal, or working the counter at MacDonald’s, that counts towards the “near 100% job placement” during your co-op term.
The worst table manners in the world exist in Waterloo’s residences. I had to leave the room in order to eat.
Aside from that, pretty much every undergrad university is good.
I’m doing a PhD in Physics at UW right now. It’s pure science program is pretty good, but it’s reputation (which is very very good) is based on undergrad engineering (mainly electrical), computer math and computer science. If you get a degree in any one of these fields, you’re going to do very well. Students in these fields routinely place well in North America wide and international competitions. I recall a couple of years ago they beat everyone (including Harvard and Princeton) in the Putnam math exams and they also won a North America wide computer programming competition.
I understand what you mean about not knowing any of this, I also grew up in Alberta and the only universities I ever heard of in Ontario were U of T and Queens. You would do quite well at U of T as well, but, if you are anything like me, Toronto is a pretty big jump from the relatively small Alberta cities and it might be more comfortable for you in Waterloo.
The “golden triangle” Waterloo-Guelph-Hamilton (I think) is the fastest growing economic area in Canada. Mainly from high tech. There are quite a few opportunities here. They have a big high-tech industrial park in Waterloo.
I was always scared to TA the electrical engineers, it was said “If a non electrical engineering student asked you a question it’s because they want to know the answer. If an electrical engineering student asks you a question it’s because they want to see if you know the answer.” You have to get crazy grades to be admitted and maintain an extreemly high gpa to stay in. Be prepared for a hell of a lot of work.
But Barbarian is right, Canadian universities at the undergrad level are quite standardized, you will get a good education in pretty much any of them.
I just have to ask two questions with regard to the above: does that mean that Waterloo is not really renown for its computer engineering program? Or is ECE pretty much the same? Also, while I am not aiming for just-above-passing grades, I was under the impression that all I have to do is pass the courses to go onto the next year, and that the attrition rate at Waterloo is very low. Is my impression wrong?
Aside from those two questions, thanks for all the help everyone.
Ian, I’m not actually the best person to answer these questions as I only have a passing knowledge of these programs from things I’ve heard and people I’ve TA’d. I didn’t know Computer Engineering was a separate program, I kind of lumped that in with electrical.
I have heard that for electrical engineering, just passing is not good enough you have to essentially maintain an A average to stay in the program. If you do not, you may still remain in engineering, but will have to withdraw from electrical engineering. You should check on this requirement for all engineering programs, it may have just been a rumor.
Sorry I can’t help you further. It sounds like Haardvark has more experience here.
Both Toronto and Waterloo are excellent for CE. I’d give a lead to Waterloo because of better opportunities to work hand in hand with industry, both through on-campus joint projects and off-campus co-op placement. Note that you must be a top student and a real world go-getter to have such doors opened for you. If you are not ahead of the pack, then you will get lost in the unwashed masses at either school.
Historically, Toronto is a general university, in which computer science was one of a great many programs. Waterloo was created as a computer science university which over the years has developed an excellent variety of engineering programs and some nice general arts and science programs. Thus although you may not have heard of Waterloo before, that is because it is new and specialized, rather than old and general.
For brilliant people who want to go to university to explore, Toronto is the way to go. It has by far the broadest offerings in Canada, and the most library holdings. However, for people who are clearly focused on computers, then Waterloo is the way to go, for major players such as IBM and Digital/Dec/Unisys have been throwing seemingly unlimited resources at Waterloo since its outset, leading to Waterloo being a primary source of talent for recruiters and a breeder for computer industry start-ups.
(I’ve attended Toronto, Waterloo, Western and Laurentian, and taught at Waterloo and Laurentian.)
Just giving this thread one bump before I send the papers and make the deposit incase anyone missed it the first time around. Again, thanks for the advice.
In co-op you will not get a job at McDonald’s. The closest a CE student would get is entering code at IBM. You can avoid the joe jobs, though, because you do get some say in the process. Even as an English co-op student I got decent jobs in my field.
CE and EE go hand in hand; students in the two programs have many of the same classes, but they are different programs. If you really want to challenge yourself go for CSEEE; it’s CE, CS, and EE combined, and is regarded as the meanest program at Waterloo.
Don’t discount the church colleges for residence options. They don’t shove religion down your throat, and are generally smaller and more comfortable than the Villages. The food’s better, too.
I loved Waterloo, and had a great time, and so did all my CompEng friends.