Is The US Government Dysfunctional

Great Debates
1

There’s a reason why the US does not have universal health care. They have been trying for decades since Eisenhour I believe. Every other western country has adopted some form of it.

It seems to me that when a parliamentary government pursues a promised objective, the ruling party members and government get their shit together before debate, consulting applicable experts as well as political strategists and present a comprehensive plan to the opposition that may or may not result in amendments, but ultimately, through the cohesion of the ruling party the deed gets done.

What I’m seeing presently in the States is so many arguments and nay sayers from both parties and both branches in congress trying to develop separate plans that I have to wonder if it will take another 50 years for the States to get on board with the rest of the developed word wrt universal health care.

2

In a manner of speaking, yes – intentionally so. The Constitution is designed to make federal action difficult and inefficient, so as to provide every opportunity for a bad law to fail. It takes more than brief enthusiasm to do something controversial; it takes sustained effort and broad support. Remember, prior to the ratification of the Constitution, the states were independent sovereign entities, and they didn’t give that up entirely.

However, the federal government is not the ultimate reason the US doesn’t have universal health care; that would be the general hostility of many Americans toward government programs. That’s not going to go away for generations, if ever, but it appears that enough of those Americans have dropped their opposition to UHC that most legislators need no longer fear a yes vote.

3

Hmm, you want more efficient government in order to accomplish a policy that you like. What happens if you have a more efficient government that is planning to accomplish something you don’t like - say, ratcheting up the drug war?

4

Except that it does THAT just fine.

As for why we don’t have UHC and similar complaints ? The government largely reflects the will of the people, and Americans on the whole are a nation of short sighted, near sociopathic right wingers who hate the idea of helping other people to the point of self destructiveness. They are afraid that UHC will work, which means that people will be helped by the government; something that many Americans are willing to die to prevent. Helping other people is … socialism ( shudder ).

5

Yep, that’s us, a bunch of sociopathic right-wing radicals we are, willing to die for the sake of our ideology. Wanna gun? C’mere, siddown and watch some Fox News, &c.

6

How can you have basic demographics so backwards?

The majority of USA citizens are not right wingers. The majority want free health care. The majority want more government, not less.

Democrats + Independents/Centrists outnumber right wingers.

Right wingers (especially the sociopathic ones as you call it) are a minority.

7

By your standards. After so many years of America sliding to the right, America is nearly all right wing, including both major parties.

8

The majority of people want bigger government and that’s the definition of “right wing”? You are not making any sense.

9

He means they’re to the right of him.

10

Oh ok, now I understand.

Well, in that case… there are 5.9999999 billion “right wingers” on planet Earth.

11

That’s not the impression I get from the Pew Political Typology.

12

After years of increasing economic pressure, we are reluctantly making tentative motions to doing what has long been standard in the rest of the Western World. That hardly qualifies us as a nation of the forefront of social progress.

As for bigger government; the right wing has never been against big government; just against helping people. They have no problem with a big government if it’s used to hurt and oppress and conquer people.

If you think I’m far left, that just underlines my point on how far to the right America is.

13

Which is sort of meaningless, we’re discussing healthcare, so if by “rightwing” he includes a large proportion of the people who support UHC, then it’s not really relevant to the discussion. If he wanted to just rant, I wish he’d take it elsewhere.

Anyways, I think part of the reason we haven’t have UHC is that in the past, the old system wasn’t so defective as it is now. Most people had jobs that provided healthcoverage, or were covered by medicare/medicaid, so the number of uninsured as a proportion of the population wasn’t so huge. Also health costs in general were lower, so that paying out of pocket wasn’t such a doomed proposition. Finally, the rise in total healthcare costs were still sustainable in '94, I don’t think that’s true anymore, the US needs to get costs under control in the very near future or benefits for a very large chunk of voters will have to be cut. People are hesitant to fix a system that works for them and their neighbors, so past attempts to get healthcare reform passed were unsuccessful.

14

If Americans are hostile to government programs why do nor GOP candidates ever run on a platform of abolishing Medicare, Medicaid, social security etc.? Why do they always run on a platform where they support those programs?

15

Because everyone wants to abolish the programs that benefit the other guy. And they do talk about abolishing such things when talking to specific subgroups, and among the leadership.

Remember “starving the beast” ? They actively wanted to run America into the ground in order to force massive cuts or the elimination of all of those programs. They just don’t have the political will to cut them without the cover of an economic collapse.

And then there’s the attempt to privatize Social security, which they have pushed for - and would amount to it’s elimination.

16

When Republicans talk to their base or speak at one of the groups that campaign to scrap large parts of government like the organisation(s) Grover Norquist runs they make the right noises about smaller government and how government spending is bad, hurts the economy etc. They say the things in couched terms that those people want to hear. But the electorate like those programs and running on a platform to abolish them is something nobody does.

17

I don’t agree with this at all. Though I see the original comment was kind of tongue in cheek.

The fact is we have equal representation in the Senate and that kills the will of the people. Wyoming with half a million people has the same power as California with almost 37 million people.

This is why historically agriculture and mining has vastly been over-represented in the United States.

500,000 people in Wyoming can effectively cancel the will of 37 million in California.

Also you have to realize the Democrats and Republicans are not very far apart on issues. Basically one takes a side and the other automatically opposes it.

I recall my first year in college when the Reagan Conservative movement started and I did an analysis of the 1972 election when Nixon slaughtered McGovern. But I was shocked to learn when I looked up the fact, the actual facts, McGovern and Nixon weren’t all that far apart. They agreed on quite a lot.

Now even as I write this people will be astonished, how can you say that? Just start looking up their positions and it’s easy to see. But McGovern got too identified with the ultra liberal students and that label stuck. McGovern wasn’t anywhere nearly as liberal as people think.

The last thing is people believe the media, both liberal and conservative. But the media has ALWAYS presented their side of the facts. Most of the times these stories are heavily slanted.

You never hear, “A man. 20 years old was caught in crossfire and died.” No it’s always some heart wrenching thing about a guy from the ghetto working his way up, almost saving up enough money from two jobs to start college and work his way into a better life was gunned down by the merciless gangs.

Of course the press leaves out facts like, while the guy wasn’t in a gang, he just hung around gang members constantly. While he worked two jobs that was only because he kept getting fired from other jobs constantly for stealing… Well you see where this goes.

The basical reason the US is dysfunctional is that are system was designed for checks and balances, but it’s gotten out of hand. A check is “Let’s review this and see if there was an error.” Not “let’s review this and then have two others review this and then if it’s OK we’ll attach an unrelated item on to it…”