Is the war in Starship Troopers THE MOVIE fabricated?

[astro]

I thought it was pretty much accepted at this point that the movie was an obvious satire, but not of Heinlein’s story directly as the film had a somewhat different context and storyline, but of militarism and fascism in general. I had not heard the “it’s just a shitty movie putting on a pose” argument had any merit.

One note about the movie is that the mask never, ever drops and that confuses people.
From the wiki

Relationship to source novel[edit]

Because the movie originated from an unrelated script, with names and superficial details from the novel being added retroactively, there are many differences between the original book and the film. While the original novel has been accused of promoting militarism, fascism and military rule,[10][11] the film satirizes these concepts by featuring news reports that are intensely fascist, xenophobic, and propagandistic. Verhoeven stated in 1997 that the first scene of the film–an advertisement for the mobile infantry–was adapted shot-for-shot from a scene from Leni Riefenstahl’s Triumph of the Will (1935), specifically an outdoor rally for the Reichsarbeitsdienst. Other references to Nazism in the movie include the Gestapo-like uniforms of commanding officers, Albert Speer-style architecture and the propagandistic dialogue. (Violence is the supreme authority!)[12]

A report in an American Cinematographer article states that the Heinlein novel was optioned well into the pre-production period of the film, which had a working title of Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine; most of the writing team reportedly were unaware of the novel at the time. According to the DVD commentary, Verhoeven never finished reading the novel, claiming he read through the first few chapters and became both “bored and depressed.”[3]

In a 2014 interview on The Adam Carolla Show, actor Michael Ironside, who read the book as a youth, said he asked Verhoeven, who grew up in Nazi-occupied Netherlands, “Why are you doing a right-wing fascist movie?”. Verhoeven replied, “If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn’t work, no one will listen to me. So I’m going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships, but it’s only good for killing fucking bugs!”[13]

Likewise, the powered armor technology that is not only central to the book but became a standard subgenre of science-fiction thereafter, is completely absent in the movie, where the characters use World War II–technology weapons and wear light combat gear little more advanced than that.[14] According to Verhoeven, this–and the fascist tone of the book–reflected his own experience in Nazi-occupied Netherlands during WWII.[15]

[BrainGlutton]

@Rick

That is explained in the book. The book named Starship Troopers. There is no Starship Troopers movie. Never has been. Maybe some day there will be. Read the book. In the book there are other races besides the bugs.
Here is the part that explains it

“The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand.”

[Kobal2]

@Colibri

It’s a bit like a cinematic variation of Poe’s Law: Without a clear indicator of the director’s intent, a badly-made parody is difficult to distinguish from a badly-made but sincere attempt at a movie in the same genre.

Come now. The children encouraged to stomp on (unrelated) bugs to Do Their Part, then enjoying a rousing, all-patriotic bullet distribution ? The triple amputee proudly saying Infantry made him the man he is today ? The ridiculously brutal boot camp montage (MEDIC ! Just broke that guy’s arm, no big deal !) ? Doogie Howser as a Nazi psychic ? Aliens destroying the fleet with their poop ? None of that twig your tongue-in-cheek-dar ?

I guess the problem is that the flick tries to have its cake and eat it too - namely, Rico’s and Michael Ironside’s arcs are, as far as I can tell, straight up Serious War Movie ; while at the same time being surrounded by stuff that is blatantly taking the piss. So the whole is a bit disjointed.

[up_the_junction]

@Kobal2

I guess the problem is that the flick tries to have its cake and eat it too - namely, Rico’s and Michael Ironside’s arcs are, as far as I can tell, straight up Serious War Movie ; while at the same time being surrounded by stuff that is blatantly taking the piss. So the whole is a bit disjointed.

So a bit like invading Iraq then; genuine soldiery surrounded by impossible amounts of bullshit and political buffoons. Or Catch 22, or plenty of other examples in this genre.

[Odesio]

I have no problem admitting the movie was satire. That doesn’t make it a good movie but it’s still satire.

[bump]

@Kobal2

The human military in general is just bugfuck (heh) retarded in that movie. No air support, no artillery, no orbital artillery for that matter, no tanks, just giant waves of might-as-well-be-naked infantry.

Hell, even crew-served machine guns might have been more helpful than rifles in that case.

[Cornelius_Tuggerson]

@TriPolar

I think it was Broken Lizard’s best movie. I really liked the part where they said ‘meow’. Sure, Heinlein didn’t write it that way, but it’s a much better adaptation than Verhoeven’s version.

I see what you did there…

[Intergalactic_Gladiator]

@TriPolar

I think it was Broken Lizard’s best movie. I really liked the part where they said ‘meow’. Sure, Heinlein didn’t write it that way, but it’s a much better adaptation than Verhoeven’s version.

@Cornelius_Tuggerson

I see what you did there…

You know, I’d be more than willing to see a Broken Lizard space war movie with giant bugs.

[MovieMogul]

I lived in England getting my MA in Film, and it amazed all my European classmates that anybody could not understand how this was obviously satire–particularly of a culture that was incredibly militarized, notoriously jingoistic, and had recently invaded another country for specious reasons.

The only nationality that seems to have viewers who fail to understand that are Americans. This included some of the cast! When Casper VD and Denise R were interviewed abroad, they didn’t seem to get the questions about the film being satire. They were trying to promote the movie as staight-up SF. Who knows? Maybe they were just pretending, but their careers show neither of them is that good of an actor.

[msmith537]

@Rick

In the book there are other races besides the bugs.
Here is the part that explains it

I feel like that’s a lot of exposition for a bunch of jarheads in boot camp.

I may read the book someday, but from excerpts I have read, I kind of feel like it may be a bit too much “let me answer your seemingly innocuous question with ten pages of narrative explaining the author’s philosophy.”

My sense of the Bug War is that it is a real war. In the context of the film, human greed, stupidity and arrogance either caused the war or escalated it through encroaching on Bug territory. Presumably thinking that they could just wipe out any bug resistance and being surprised both by the bug asteroid strike on Buenos Aires and the counterattack on Klendathu.

The bugs do have interstellar travel. At least two planets are invaded (Klendathu and Planet P) and the destruction of a third (Zegema Beach) is mentioned.

[Dr.Strangelove]

@MovieMogul

and had recently invaded another country for specious reasons.

Uh, what? Starship Troopers was released in 1997. The most recent war involving the US was in Bosnia, but that’s not exactly held up as a prime example of US imperialism.

[Aquadementia]

The bugs must have had FTL capability. If they seeded planets by launching eggs that traveled for thousands of years the whole game would be blasting eggs before they make planet fall.

They could have had a thousand warp-bubble bugs land on the asteroid and guide it to Earth.
Once they learned a little about humans it might seem like a good strategy. Bugs don’t care much if you kill off millions of them but with people destroying a city could be a deterrent.

@Bryan_Ekers

There’s a similar “throw a rock, watch it cross interstellar space in a reasonable amount of time” bit in The Last Starfighter. Heck, movies that depict space travel in a consistent manner (let alone a plausible one) are rarer than snake armpits.

Thanks for the Last Starfighter reminder. That was a well targeted asteroid that only destroyed the few Starfighters they knew about but not much else.

@Just_Asking_Questions

… Either way, why does no one complain about the total tactical clusterfuck that is the execution of the war. Where is the air support? You may make a claim that the film is satirizing Viet Nam, but we didn’t send soldiers over there in bermuda shorts and cap guns. We gave them real weapons that were actually useful.
…

It’s been a while since I’ve seen it but I remember they did have air support. They would nuke thousands of bugs from the air before troops landed. Then ten times as many would come out of tunnels.
The bugs were tricky.

[tnetennba]

Somebody noticed similarities between the movie I Robot and the Asimov book? I sure didn’t.

[cmyk]

The movie was probably more of a satire as a whole than even Verhoven’s Robocop. And there was explicit anti-consumerism and anti-privatization of law enforcement in there.

[MovieMogul]

@Dr.Strangelove

Uh, what? Starship Troopers was released in 1997. The most recent war involving the US was in Bosnia, but that’s not exactly held up as a prime example of US imperialism.

The first Gulf War ended in 1991, only a few years before production would’ve started on the film.

[muldoonthief]

@MovieMogul

The first Gulf War ended in 1991, only a few years before production would’ve started on the film.

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I think describing the first Gulf War as “invading another country for specious reasons” is a pretty inaccurate description. And if I remember correctly, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America were all involved in the first Gulf War. So which of those countries was it a satire of?

[up_the_junction]

It obv. foreshadowed the WMD war/invasion. I’m not sure you could have written anything more accurate.

[Quimby]

@muldoonthief

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I think describing the first Gulf War as “invading another country for specious reasons” is a pretty inaccurate description. And if I remember correctly, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America were all involved in the first Gulf War. So which of those countries was it a satire of?

At the time the first Gulf war was very questionable to a lot of people. Because it was short and had relatively few American casualties it was popular but a lot of people at the time, liberal types like me :), were indeed against it.

[msmith537]

@MovieMogul

I lived in England getting my MA in Film, and it amazed all my European classmates that anybody could not understand how this was obviously satire–particularly of a culture that was incredibly militarized, notoriously jingoistic, and had recently invaded another country for specious reasons.

The only nationality that seems to have viewers who fail to understand that are Americans. This included some of the cast! When Casper VD and Denise R were interviewed abroad, they didn’t seem to get the questions about the film being satire. They were trying to promote the movie as staight-up SF. Who knows? Maybe they were just pretending, but their careers show neither of them is that good of an actor.

Yeah, look at the stupid Americans.:rolleyes:

I disagree that Verhooven’s film satire’s America in particular. Yes, it happens that the USA was the worlds superpower in 1996. But invading other nations, escalating wars for spurious political reasons and getting the population all amped up on nationalism while hiding the true costs of war is a time-honored human tradition that dates back to before the British Empire. Why do you think we’re so “militarized”? It’s for keeping the King of England out of our face.
Do you want to know more…

[Kenm]

@msmith537

Why do you think we’re so “militarized”? It’s for keeping the King of England out of our face.

I wish you’d pay more attention to the queen of Canada. If anyone should be forced out of North America, it’s her.