It was posted in that thread, but not posted here yet:
Yes, the OP got permission from the mods. Every request needs at least four or five mods to agree to it, so it’s never up to just one.
And they will typically get approved as long as everything is upfront, it doesn’t seem like a scam, and we don’t find any other problem with it.
Obviously many other variables can apply (such as how long the poster has been at the boards, for example), but that’s the quick and dirty version.
In the end, it’s up to the posters to decide whether or not they want to donate. If you don’t like the reason for the money being asked or think it’s a crappy or shallow reason, that’s fine too, but please make thoughts like that in the Pit, rather than make the request a reverse Pit thread.
I’m never going to pay to any donation posts here (partly because apparently my money’s no good to American banks or Paypal, mostly because you people aren’t my actual friends) but hells, people - I just don’t post to those threads, it’s not hard to avoid them.
ETA: OK, that Europe one deserves a more obvious title, actually. Something like “(PS: Donations Thread”) in the title, otherwise it’s just too clickbaity
Not everything is black or white. Discussion about why someone might not want to donate or questions to the OP about other alternatives are fine.
I’m talking about clear threadshits that either get on the OP’s case heavily for making the thread at all or the mods for allowing it, because that is what the Pit and ATMB are for, respectively.
The ATMB topic exists now, anyone can feel free to make a Pit thread if they want to crap on the OP.
I asked the OP why I should want to pay for a girls holiday, and then suggested that it would be a better idea to wait until she was older, and that was termed threadshitting? Maybe the language was coarse but asking the OP to give a reason why I should donate seems quite valid to me.
To me, your question came off as sounding rhetorical. If I’m wrong, I apologize, but the point of that note remains the same, as it wasn’t just to you, but to everyone: You may disagree with her asking or with the mods for allowing it, but you don’t have to donate and it’s not hard to ignore that thread if you aren’t interested in giving anything (other than a stern opinion about her making the thread in the first place).
Although there have been a few in a row the requests have been relatively rare. If we get bombarded with requests we may have to revisit the vetting process. As it is most requests disappear relatively quickly.
To be honest misstee did a much better job explaining her need in her request. She was clear and concise and on it’s face there was nothing wrong with her request. I think her attempt to make a more conversational OP hurt her cause. Was it something I would give money to? No. But that doesn’t mean there was anything wrong with it. I’m just not going to donate.
The problem with putting the bar at compelling is it is in the eye of the beholder. What I find compelling you don’t. And we are right back here where we started “Why would you approve that?”
I would consider you trying to convince others to not donate to be a thread shit. Asking specific questions about the requests are fine. After all the OP did say: “Thanks again for reading through this- if you have any questions about Emily or the trip feel free to ask them and I will answer them to the best of my ability.”
As Idle Thoughts said, if you want to discuss the decision to allow the thread do it here. If you want to complain about or blast the OP for making the request you can open a Pit thread.
ETA: Just to be clear, do not try to sneak in insults to the OP within your question. There is no need for that when the Pit is available to you.
I certainly get the point about keeping threadshits out of any particular OP, but sometimes an OP is just asking for ridicule, especially when it’s a pathetic attempt at a money grab. It just leaves a very sour taste in the majority of mouths here when they read something like that. There should be no need to mod strong opinions within that thread when the OP is asking for it. Especially if it’s been approved by the moderation. You guys have been here for ages, you should know what’s gonna set people off by now. There’s even precedence here.
The same goes for any thread where willful ignorance is on display, we’ll dissect and/or ridicule any idea or opinion that posters put up for grabs. Why should requests from OPs out of poor taste be any different?
In fewer words:
Attacking the merits of the Opening Post should be 100% allowed within that thread.
Attacking the Opening Poster (her/himself)… that should only be done in the Pit.
I think all donation threads should be labeled as such in the title. The title on this one led to me to believe it was about European travel in general rather than asking for money so an obviously financially successful family can ask strangers to pay for their teen’s trip to Europe.
So, what if the OP is posting a scam? I really think you should allow criticism of the post/request.
(I swear I just posted this part. If this appears elsewhere about 15 minutes ago, it’s…oh, Idle Thought’s fault. )
What about my suggestion that all donation/“gimme money” request threads go to the Pit. You need money that badly? You should be prepared to answer tough questions honestly.
Only speaking for myself, I feel the need to enforce the board rules. I don’t know how it can be interpreted as protecting anyone when there is a Pit. You want to call out a poster? Start a Pit thread. No one is going to protect anyone.
Why should it need to be in the Pit? It should be within the board rules that you can criticize poorly thought out posts or propositions in any particular thread.
If I ask for $4000 for a frikkin pony, cuz I want one, I should be prepared to deal with any positive or negative feedback and interaction (so long as you’re not insulting the actual poster).
I haven’t read the topic in question, but cmyk is right. To say that only positive replies are allowed, defeats the very nature and purpose of a message board, which is discussion. You post a topic, we talk about it. To say that only posts agreeing should be allowed, and those that poke a little fun, or question the validity of the premise, sets these topics in a special class. There are already rules in place about how to conduct oneself here. If these topics make moderating more difficult, then perhaps that reason alone is worth either not allowing them, or placing them in The Pit to start with. (A great idea, Fenris.)
Because it would be more fun. Seriously. The “Bunny Air-Conditioning” begathon, the “Cartoon College” one, these would have been a blast in The Pit. And real requests (the “my computer broke and I can’t afford a new one, anyone have an old 286 they can spare”, “My dad is dying, can’t afford to travel to see him” type threads) would be just fine in the Pit–the few assholes that tried to threadshit would be shouted down or modded (threadshitting rules apply in the Pit as well, after all)
I do have to agree with Penfeather and also BigT (wow, I didn’t think that combo was possible! :D). Of what purpose is the Marketplace, if Kickstarters and GoFundMes and IndieGoGos and links to buy members’ new awesome products are now allowed in other forums?
I know we’re under new leadership now–and yay for that–but I do think their previous guideline made sense: that is, if someone wants to ask the SDMB audience for money, the post had to be either a) vetted and approved by the mods, or --if it was an actual product being sold–b) placed strictly in the Marketplace forum, and required a paid membership.
Because really, it’s no different from advertising. The more you allow these things now (I can think of three examples in the past month, at least one of which contained no disclaimer that a mod had approved of the threads), the more people will whine once you clamp down on the inevitable deluge: “B-but there was no mod permission given when ____ posted in Café Society about his/her fantasy novel Dead On Point about the war against zombie porcupines, and then bumped the thread ten times in two days!”
Little by little people will know to come here to hawk their Etsy wares and ask for funding to buy a new Brita filter for their poor little Timmy because tap water is just too metallic-tasting and now he’s got diabetes because he’s been forced to drink nothing but Coke since he was 3.
Short version: My recommendation is that you require all attempts to ask for money–donations or commercial–to go into the Marketplace. In extraordinary cases, such as if the fundraiser is on behalf of a longtime member of the community and the OP does make a request of the mods, let it be posted in MPSIMS with a note that this has received at least some vetting from the moderators, although that doesn’t mean it’s an endorsement.
If it goes beyond just an opinion of worthiness and anyone has information that there is a scam, please report or contact a mod immediately. It will not be allowed to be left open.
There is nothing wrong with discussion of the topic or legitimate questions. Replying to a thread by stating how stupid you think the thread is, well that’s pretty much the definition of threadshitting.
As for the Pit suggestion, I’m against it. As it is there is nothing stopping you from asking questions, even tough questions. As long as the questions are sufficiently MPSIMy. No insults. No threadshitting. None of the other jocosity allowed in the Pit.
Here’s an actual situation that happened here years ago. (It may have been the original begging thread…I don’t recall an earlier one). I’ll try to dig up the link before anyone yells “Cite”
A mod introduced a poster and said (all quotes paraphrased) “This is a good kid who’s in some trouble. He’s stuck in Europe and when/if(?) he gets back to NYC needs a place to stay, food to eat and a job. Dopers are generous. Can anyone help?”
Well, there were a bunch of people who were going to contribute or help the guy get a job, etc until a fairly brave poster (given the mod’s temper, the mod’s apparently friendly relationship with the guy, and given the chummier climate at the time) said “Uh–wait a minute. Here’s the full situation: 1) The kid’s problems in Europe are largely his own. 2) He’s been to dopefests and scammed meals off people (dine-and-dash style) as well as promising to pay and never doing so 3) He’s irresponsible as hell (reasons A, B, C) and if you recommend him for a job, you’re putting your reputation at stake for someone who behaves this way.”
By this rule, that would be off-limits. It shouldn’t be.
If Jack Dean Tyler were reinstated and he said he wanted money to start a Mohel school, it would be extremely appropriate to bring up his past history. I don’t think that should be off limits when someone wants Dopers to give money.
(And I would pay money if you’d reinstate Jack Dean Tyler as a member and then set him up with a FundMe page to create mohel schools all over the country. :D)
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