Dude. The bunny is dead. Let it go already.
For me, this is where the real problem lies. I think we should be free to debate the merits of the request and we can’t do that without being free to explain - in detail, as necessary - why we think it might be a bad idea to donate to a specific cause. For example, I would say, “Half the people on this board have kids who are fundraising for some cause or other. There other half doesn’t have kids but still needs money. I don’t want to encourage an endless stream of posts asking for handouts, no, not even if there are cookies.”
My reasons for not donating are just as valid as her reasons for asking. Like everything else on this message board, it should be open for discussion.
I don’t mean to be obtuse here, but if there’s no way the mods can verif legitimacy, what’s the point of requiring sanction, or approval, or consent, or blessing, or* nihil obstat*, or whatever the hell you want to call it. The SDMB can cover its ass legally by putting up the same type of notice as it does for real life meetings of members and wash its hands of the whole thing.
And if you’re keeping a tally, I, too, feel any type of solicitation should be in Marketplace.
Is it threadshitting to post a link to the current PIT thread in the original asking for money thread?
I have an objection to another line:
And:
I wholeheartedly agree with Merneith:
To disallow such discussion is an extraordinary level of… protection… for lack of a better word. I certainly agree that MPSMIS should be free of the vitriol that The Pit offers, but this guidance is far too chilling to open discussion, and puts the OP’s begging post into its own, sui generis category. Without discussion, the truth of the “hot attic and rabbits that needed air conditioning” scam would never have come to light.
I think there is a distinction between asking direct questions about how the money will be used and the finer points of the request, and simply pointing how stupid, selfish or trivial the request is.
The Pit is the perfect forum for those latter comments. Understanding the nature of the request is appropriate for the request thread itself.
So, as it stands…
Poster A asks for money for new racing tires for his family car.
Poster B says putting racing tires on a passenger car is foolish, and maybe dangerous.
Poster B gets a warning for threadshitting.
Something ain’t right here.
I think your suggestion has some merit. And I am not just saying that because I suggested it as a possibility on the Mod side long before you did. 
This has brought up some issues that will be discussed. At this point I’m not sure if it will lead to changes or not. But the thread was in compliance with current rules regardless of what may or may not happen later.
I will say it one more time. There is nothing wrong with debating the merits. There is nothing wrong with questioning the OP. What is wrong and threadshitting is to go into the thread and just posting things like “This is stupid” and “Nobody donate!” I don’t know how much more clear I can get without charts and graphs.
That is a consideration. It will be brought into the discussion.
Not at all. It is done all the time.
Detailed examples are not the cure for all, but perhaps you could elaborate.
OKAY:
[ul]
[li]Questioning the OP[/li][li]Debating the merits [of donating][/li][/ul]
Not Okay:
[ul]
[li]“This is stupid”[/li][li]“Nobody donate”[/li][/ul]
In doubt:
[ul]
[li]OP, does it seem wise to request money for what is essentially a luxury?[/li][li]On balance, when evaluating whether it is worthwhile to donate to this cause, or many other causes, it appears that the merits of this cause are far outweighed by others and as a result I urge my fellow posters to direct their charity other places.[/li][/ul]
I don’t know where statements in the bottom list would fall. Those statements don’t run afoul of any other existing board rules, but based on your guidance for that thread they may. That’s why it’s unclear.
You are incorrect. Maybe it was a poor choice of words on my part. Making a statement as to the lack of merits of the request is perfectly fine. If your statement is compelling enough to keep others from donating that is fine too.
The line you object to was in direct response to Grotonian who asked if his statement in post #10 was allowed. His statement opened with “I hope no one donates hard-earned money to this “cause”.” For the most part I had no problem with the rest of the statement after that first line. That is specifically what I was referring to. Not to any specific criticisms of the request.
In my opinion exhorting others to not donate would be threadshitting. It would amount to starting a counter campaign in someone’s thread. Donate or don’t donate. Note your objections or not. Ask questions or don’t. But don’t threadshit. Just like in any other MPSIMS thread. I realize the last bit is a judgement call. That happens to be my judgement.
OH MY GOD! Did the air conditioning go out? :eek::eek:
Also, that scam was a board classic, so no. It will live as long as Jack Dean Tyler’s foreskin issues, FreakFreely’s meltdown and Opalcat’s Buckeyes.
BTW: This makes much more sense to me now. I’d gotten a similar impression to Bricker (no talking about the lack of merit of the request being a problem). This clears it up for me.
Thanks!
It’s an emotional thing, especially for those of us who feel strongly about charity. So, when I see someone asking for frivolous handouts, in the same board where people have legitimate struggles that mean the difference between life or death, standard of living or poverty, etc… it just chaps my ass, and it makes me want to vocalize within that thread that this is not the sort of thing one should donate to if you’re feeling particularly philanthropic.
Of course, people can do whatever they want with their own money, but I’m here to interact and discuss these fringe cases too, especially when something here bums me out, as in this case. I feel the request of that particular OP is wholly stupid, vapid, and of such poor taste, I feel it should be okay to say so in these instances.
Diverting that discourse to another thread in the Pit dampens the immediate discussion at the source—which is the whole point of this board.
I say we compromise. We let the begging requests stand but also, those are the only threads outside of the pit where trolling, insults, threadshitting, etc. are allowed. In other words, let the SD community determine the worthiness of the request.
It might be the single most relevant example in this whole discussion. Just because it’s embarrassing to someone (who, incidentally, was explicitly not named) isn’t a reason not to discuss it.
Our rule book already takes up three internets. Do you know how much work will be involved in changing it?
In an ideal world, every donation thread would be required to have the words “Donation Request” in the thread title, and there would be an option in one’s User Profile to automatically Ignore any such thread.
But it’s not an ideal world, just a messageboard.
So we have the option to open the thread (or not), donate (or not), reply to the thread giving one’s reasons for donating (or not), and opening a Pit thread raking the OP over the coals for making such a request (or not).
I’m OK with those options.
Regards,
Shodan
PS - We miss you, Polycarp. But you are happier now than we are, and we don’t regret that.
I confess that I’m not at all unhappy with the status quo and that I very rarely or never read these sorts of threads. So take with salt.
I’ll observe though that such threads could automatically be directed to IMHO (aka GD lite). The idea being that the donation request is a proposal and that it is subject to a certain level of scrutiny. Polite skepticism would be the default stance, as opposed to sympathy.
Charity though is typically seen as a way of cultivating our better natures. So placing those threads in IMHO might seem incongruous, especially if somebody claims to have a medical condition. But… perhaps more cerebral expectations would be better.
True; a lot of moderator decision making consists of drawing essentially arbitrary distinctions between what’s acceptable and unacceptable, and although they may query individual decisions members accept that’s the nature of the job. The major difference is that these arbitrary decisions have real life consequences, which is why I think that threads asking for actual money are an aberration that have no place here, except in very exceptional circumstances. Possibly they worked better when there were fewer members here, they knew each other better and there were no other online avenues for crowd-funding, but I think times have moved on, it would be wiser if board policy reflected that.
By the way, I really appreciate how the moderating around this issue has been handled, especially the willingness to explain, engage, and reconsider. Good work.